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#15

Ok! :slight_smile: Let’s the bugs live in the underground! May be you’re right, x42!

I’d just like to shear my experience and think like an usual user (an example of an usual user).

Just the words “Fully featured DAW!” at the beginning of the video - makes personally me (don’t know about others) expecting MIDI editing like in Cubase SL at least (but even today Ardour has no such polished stable working today with midi editing like Cubase had in about 2009 year). If I didn’t know the Ardour’s limitations - I could have such expectations.

May be another example about Linux can help me to explain. When I started to study Inkscape, I tried to understand what it can really do. I know Corel Draw well in some applied tasks (really have a great skill). BUT I’ve spent so much time to know every weak thing about Inkscape, BECAUSE so much linux people told only about some good features, but not about the reality. Thus I hate Linux and love simultaneously :slight_smile: Some people consider themselves knowing and professionals. They call something “great” and “professional”. I need to check such “great features”, and after a long forums and questions I begin to understand - that people know nothing about the real production and they simply waste my time. I think my hate is not groundless.

I could escape “wrong expectations” if I could know the reality about Inkscape. I do love it and my love can’t disappear if I know the limitations. Sorry if my words are looking not good.

I hope you guys know what are you sending to the world. Why a man needs colored cover (and must tell on my test — the cover turned out really cool) if he really needs a simply good clarity.

I often asked Paul about the possibilities — and he told me clear answers (Thanks him! :))
I think Linux doesn’t need to compete with windows. Simply people need to know what it can do and can not do yet.
But some «loud words» can attract people who are really tempted in MIDI stuff and they will begin to «hate&love Linux» :slight_smile:

But it’s only my stupid thoughts :))/ Do the best like you like!

#16

Great idea Paul,good work all staff Ardour :grinning:

#17

I don’t understand what exactly you’re trying to achieve. I don’t want to attack you because I think you’re trying to help improve a piece of software that you’re invested in and I think we can all appreciate that. But with that said, Robin already pointed out a more effective and more accepted way of actually accomplishing that. I have been heavy into synthesizers for the last year now, but I usually use hardware sequencers and CV in/outs to handle any sort of production work and usually do nothing more than use Ardour for tracking the actual audio outs of the synths and maybe some fader and panning automation. So forget me and my simplistic ways… I just watched unfa’s second video on this channel and I can’t even imagine what else you would expect out of the MIDI capabilities of this DAW. But again, I’m simplistic with this electronic stuff. It just seems like you have aired these same grievances, without valuable effect, on a few threads. Have you actually filed any bug reports as recommended? Better yet, have you tried your hardest to create within the limitations presented by the software you are using? Because in the end, THAT is the measure of an artist. unfa’s track in this new video is pretty radical. It seems to me he dealt with what was presented before him and created something most excellent instead of focusing on what isn’t possible and demanding the attention and concern of everyone else on whatever alleged problem(s).

#18

AND, as Robin has already said here and on at least one other thread when you have brought up Ardour’s inadequacies with respect to MIDI functionality, a lot of these problems are getting fixed for 6.0. So I really don’t understand the purpose of constantly bringing these problems up. Do you believe that 6.0 is going to come out faster if we keep posting about the same problems in the forums?

#19

sadly this is not true. It was originally our plan to have 6.0 contain the work I did last year on musical time representation. Alas, this is not going to happen unless we decided to wait many more months to release 6.0. The next release will contain some fixes for a few details of MIDI, but it will not address the problems caused by the way time is represented (that will come in the next major release, which we hope will happen much faster than the 5-to-6 transition).

1 Like
#20

Hi, drsaamah! First of all - thanks for the dialog! :slight_smile: I think it’s good chance of trying to find the understanding.

Yes you’re right - I’m trying to help to improve the software as I can (reporting bugs to the bug-tracker for example – you can find me there under the name “cooltehno_bugs”), but I didn’t invested anything in Ardour, because I’ve no possibility to pay via Pay-Pal :)). I use Ardour through KXStudio (thanks to people like FalkTX and all the Linux community, and special to Paul for open source, that FalkTX can use as far as he wants).

May be my words are looking not good, because I don’t speak English much (this is not my native). I suppose I talk too straight and pretentious. Sorry, if so. One man called me here in IRC “pretentious bastard” (good name for a rock band :slight_smile: sounds good))) and perhaps he is right partially – I like to importune to every small change with too much attention. Who knows…

One other reason of my strange words is my habit to be making work dandled by Cubase and other polished Windows software (in different areas). When I tried to record my first midi drum part in Ardour through the loop playing – I had got rather frustrated. But Robin and Paul told me how to solve that task. If you know how to record such midi drum loops in Cubase (and also have a habit) – you should be little sad about the Ardour’s way to do this task.))) Or for example if you will make few midi parts with a lot of automation tracks and after will want to drag them together somewhere in session - you’ll get in troubles. Some Ableton people could think that Ardour has the same possibilities in midi and automation looking to Unfa’s presentation, but they don’t know how it really works. I also make some dancing style stuff in Ardour, because I like it :)/ but I know what kind of efforts I need to spend :)… Ardour is not an Ableton (words of Paul in one of his posts)

I’m not trying to assault to Ardour. It’s the best DAW in Linux today (in my opinion). Also I can just install it for free or buy only for 1$. It has super possibilities in routing (for me), which I didn’t find in Cubase (polished windows program)!! Also it supports .lv2 plugins (super pumped commercial Bitwig – doesn’t, may be I’m mistaken and Tracktion also). For me – Ardour – is the best choice in Linux today.

But if we want to be honest it has some lacks in some areas (midi - which I really tested in my opinion). I don’t want to drag the discussion to negative value here, if you’d like some confirmation to my words about midi – just click on my account here (in forum) and look to my questions and answers. From there you’ll also find my respect to Paul&team.

About “the measure of an artist” (hope I got what you are saying) - I also have the same position :). We don’t need to have supercomplex tools, some men can play only one string or plastic bottle… I’m playing with the dance music in Ardour In such style (and in Linux at all). I know, that I could buy Live and begin to make a cool stuff. But the easy ways are not for radical punks :slight_smile:

My position is to use what we have today with pleasure (I have for free) and make something. But we can speak freely about lacking of possibilities in comparing with other DAWs. The world of Windows is older – it’s the fact. It’s strong and large. The majority of people is working in windows – also the fact. The comparisons are inevitable. The good quality video (I’d like to mark again – the Unfa’s presentation videos are cool for me, as far as I’m developed and tempted) will attract the windows people. They will be not so pleased to know “some marvelous” Linux limitations. But if they will know what to expect – the intelligent part of them will understand and have a good attitude to the people who had gave them an explanation.

I’ve just thought about the idea about the “trouble video” again - perhaps it’s really not so good. That’s why I’m writing here (not in YouTube). It was just a thought. May be my words will give some reason for reflection. May be not the video about some lack of, but something different….

In confirmation of my good attitude – Good luck and mood to Paul, Robin and developers! Thank you very much for your cool work and talent!

#21

A DAW is a massive multi-track, automatable, non-destructive editing system. It may or may not feature a MIDI sequencer. Although most DAWs do.

Since you keep mentioning Cubase, that started out as MIDI sequencer and moved towards a DAW. Ardour takes the opposite route. It wasn’t until Ardour 3.0 (~5 years ago) that Ardour featured MIDI tracks at all. Cubase has a 23 year head-start :slight_smile:

We have generally been upfront with limitations and issues, and it’s not uncommon that we recommend other tools if Ardour can’t meet a user’s requirements.

It’s highly workflow dependent and this promo-video by itself may indeed raise false expectations. I’d have preferred a video like this as a closing session “look what we’ve covered over the past tutorial videos”.

2 Likes
#22

I’m a bit confused about the current state of Ardour’s Youtube channel. While unfa, who used to create the tutorials, has recently made a very enthusiastic video about the release of version 6, he has published it on his own channel. In the comments of the latest Ardour tutorial video (which is already about ten months old), unfa has stated recently that he’s not planning on making any more videos for Ardour’s official channel . So what happened considering that the channel was created as recently as February last year? Are there any plans for new content or was that it?

#23

We would love it if someone stepped up to make videos at the same high level of production values that unfa used on the ones that he made. We did pay him for the videos (not a lot, but not a little either). There is money put aside for this, and will continue to be put aside periodically, but at this point in time, nobody has offered (and we have not gone looking).

As with most things related to Ardour, it requires a high degree of self-motivation. There’s no roadmap for videos, no guidelines, nobody is going to tell the video producer what to do (though Robin and I do have aesthetic judgements that we try to be open about). Someone has to have a vision (like unfa did) and a workflow and just do it, with willingess to accept suggestions about the result.

2 Likes
#24

So unfa has just lost his interest in contributing to the channel? Or is there any other reason he quit? I’m asking because when the original tutorial series was announced, it seemed as if unfa had a fairly long-term dedication in mind for creating these videos.

#25

He still does regular live streams that feature Ardour every month, but that is rather casual.

IIUC making videos with the quality of the ones he initially made was eventually too time consuming for him.

#26

That is the key,time. I think it is too much time to do both.

This said Unfa 's vids contains tons of things about ardour, i improved myself with ardour by watching his videos, the livestreams are like tuts too, barely all times on ardour and synths :wink:

#27

I’ve decided it’ll make sense for me to focus on my own channel and keep covering Ardour there.

There’s many factors, one being that I’ve set quite a high bar, and I’ve felt that keeping that production value is just going to be too costly. On my own channel I am not afraid to alter the quality at will. It didn’t feel right if I would suddenly start posting videos on Ardour channel that are clearly made much quicker and with less effort.

Another factor was that the videos on the Ardour channel overall didn’t get as much exposure as I thought they would.

I can reach a larger audience, and also maybe be more trustworthy when the videos are not sponsored by Ardour, but by my viewers directly. I also can complain about the bugs more :smiley:

I’d someone would like to pick up the torch, I can share my assets (if the Ardour team would approve that).

Overall I think this was a very intesting project, and I’m happy I was given such an opportunity - it didn’t work out in the long run, but I think it was worth it!

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Paul Davis Interview with LibreArts (Was LibreGraphicsWorld)
#28

Hi @unfa! I could have guessed that you’re active here in the forums, so first of all: Sorry for not approaching you in person. Your reasons for not adding more videos to Ardour’s channel are all completely understandable. Thank you for being so open since these are what I was wondering about all along.

While your videos didn’t show me many new things because I’d consider myself a somewhat advanced user, I really enjoyed watching them and I’m sure they will help many beginners taking their first steps with Ardour. You did a great job and yes, the bar is now pretty high.

Looking forward to seeing more of your work on your own channel!

All the best
saltedcoffee

#29

There was a discussion on threads sometime ago about everyone making videos that are centered on their own abilities, workflow, audience, etc. but using Ardour. The way you can find however many youtube educators teaching how to produce, mix, master, etc. using ProTools, Logic, or whatever. Simply seeing creators using Ardour to make great music can be a stimulus to get more people supporting the project. I meant to start doing this but I went the wrong path and got demotivated. I’ll try again, but I think anything I do would be best focused on production and recording of rock music. I think others have a better grasp of electronic elements, MIDI, and mixing. I know @Seagate was talking about uploading videos based on the college courses he teaches. I was pretty excited about that.

1 Like
#30

@drsaamah I believe you meant me for the record, not Seagate:)

That being said, that is still the plan, part of this summer is dedicated to creating materials for my college courses in case I have to teach online again in the fall or spring anyways. I have a collaboration to develop one of the courses with a coworker, but the mixing course I am teaching in the fall and need to work on that as well, so it is very likely you may see some material from me in the fall.

    Seablade
4 Likes
#31

I did mean you, sorry! And I’m excited for whatever material you eventually have for us. Thanks :slight_smile:

#32

I think I can explain why. To the best of my knowledge, Ardour’s channel wasn’t promoted anywhere but the blog here (on one occasion that I know of) and Ardour’s Twitter account.

Making the YT channel more discoverable would involve, among other things:

  • having a short intro video for new users, either on the front page or at the top of the Features page (usually the most impact)
  • having a dedicated Training page (or Tutorials, or what have you) that would list already available video tutorials
  • having video reviews for every new release at the top of the What’s New section
  • having social media links in the footer of every page (least impact but still useful)

The demographic is already used to watching videos on the website. Just a few references:

https://novationmusic.com/en/synths/peak

https://monome.org/

https://www.ableton.com/en/live/

Please note that I’m doing things completely backwards here for the sake of the argument :slight_smile:

Of course the point is not to promote the YT channel, the point is to give people the content they 1) want, and 2) expect to find and, currently, can’t. So, in my opinion, Ardour needs a bit of website revamp + quite a bit of new content (I know @paul has some plans for the latter) + highlighting the existing content (IMO, manual.ardour.org deserves more than just one link in the footer).

Just my humble 2 cents as a marketing/content pro.

2 Likes
#33

I feel like most of the people who know about it come from a video on my own channel announcing it, and me linking people to these videos constantly. So yeah. I definitely think such an effort needs more buzz.

#34

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