Tempo Extraction from Audio

As I learn how to use Ardour I am trying some of my common workflows. I have been making my own backing tracks for live performances since 1986.
The tracks are midi only using VST instruments for Drums, Bass and some keyboards. I have a new workflow where I use stem separation to break the original song into Bass, Drums, Other and Vocals.

I’ll probably have lots of questions, but I am looking at tutorials as well as looking in the Manual first. I couldn’t find this one.

In Sonar /Cakewalk - I place the 4 stems and replace the instruments by playing along with the original.
But I can also do a few other things using ARA. and Melodyne.
First I can extract the Tempo by just dragging the Drum track to the Timeline. It works 80% of the time.
I can convert the Audio bass track into Midi and sometimes with Drum Replacer can convert the drum track into at least the KIck and snare. Once again works about 60 % of the time.

SO Ardour doesn’t yet have Ara support. Hopefully it’s on someones list?
But todays question is there a way to extract the tempo from an audio track and if not is there a way to sync the measures manually?
The song seems very close to being 170 BPM but then it drifts.
I see I can change tempos on the tempo track ( can this be made bigger? ) but the way I’m used to doing this is you place the now time on the downbeat of the Audio track and use a set measure here sort of thing.
Without the tempo following the original song midi editing will not work.
Thank you.

The nominal way in Ardour is to select a range that you believes corresponds to 1 bar, and press the zero key.

There are other approaches if you have 1 bar region (select it and press 1).

Tempo mapping (making the tempo map follow a human performance) is a complex topic, and best covered in this video (about Mixbus but identical in Ardour): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrr9lr_Pbkg

Thank you for your reply. That was exactly what I was hoping for. Only problem is the video must be older. Mixbus ( I have Mixbus 9 ) and Ardour don’t look like that now.
The Tempo track in his view is bigger. I can barely see mine.
There is no Meter track.
He also uses a mouse tool that I cannot find that drags the Measure lines. He grabs a Meter marker from the divider?
Anyhow it might as well be instructions for another Daw. I’ll see what is in the manual now that I know what it is called.

Is they any way to make the Tempo lane bigger?

I guess this part of the manual might help, even got a few short videos :slight_smile:

P.S. No, rulers are all of the same height and can’t be made taller/shorter.

Well I’m sorry but I am just boggled by how hard it is to do anything in this Daw. I can’t even find the metronome??? I looked in the manual. I Googled it !! it seems there is no Metronome? Everything you do takes forever. The manual and the tutorials all seem outdated and are for Mixbus 4. . I give up. This is not an easy daw to learn,
I have had no problems learning MIxcraft, Pro Tools, Cubase and Studio One. Thanks for your help it is appreciated.

metro

Not going to say much more.

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The official user manual is up-to-date and covers v8.7.0. I make sure that it does :slight_smile: If it doesn’t in one chapter or another, please let me know and I’ll fix it promptly.

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Not to mention that there are no MixBus manuals on ardour.org.

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I have a lua script that does exactly what you are asking. Just place in the scripts directory under ~/.config/ardour8, open Ardour and go to Edit, Lua scripts, Script Manager, Action Scripts, click on add/set then look for “Tempo - Estimate and Set Tempo”. Please Note For audio loops that are shorter than 4 bars, you will need to have sox and bpm-tools installed for it to work.

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I do agree a little bit on what John Vere points out about the manual (although RTFM applies).

If I use the searchtool in the manual and search for Metronome I get a DuckDuckGo page with a lot of links but not one that directs to a page in the manual about the metronome.
The first link is about Tempo and Time Signature. The second one directs me back to the introduction-page. Maybe the word metronome is somewhere on these pages but it’s not what I’m looking for.
The fourth link directs me to ArdourConfiguration-Preferences where I can find a link to the Metronome if I scroll down this page.
There is no index in the manual.
For beginning Ardour users this can be a little bit confusing.

I have the habit now to download the offline pdf-manual, searching a pdf-dokument is more convenient.

While this does not at all negate your comment, just another random anecdote.

For the record, when I type in Metronome, my second link is a single page version of the manual, which a CTRL+F on it find a Metronome quickly in a menu under preferences (Which is where your fourth link heads to) that links to the transport bar.

  Seablade

Thank you for your replies and thank you @coenplanetc for confirming my frustration with the manual. It really needs an index. I am testing 12 Daw’s and Ardour scores very low on getting information easily.
As far as Tempo extractions goes it is in development I guess.
I attempted to edit the tempo track but it is microscopic ( like that Metronome icon) and it takes way too many moves per change. Most Daw’s this is easily done using a envelope and nodes. And a tempo or marker list that each change is visible and can be quickly edited. .
What I finding is this is a daw that most everything you go to do is not intuitive. It is the opposite and compared to many others nothing is standardized.
It is capable of doing a lot but all these features are hidden away in sub menus.
It would seem you will need to know where to look as well as memorize a zillion keyboard sortcuts.
Tanks to everyone for your help but I will put Ardour aside for now and move on to testing Mixcraft.

Can I ask you guys where is the UI you expect to see the metronome that you don’t see it and need to use the manual?

There’s definitely a point in having an index, but that would be manual work (pun unintended). The entire manual is in HTML originally, there’s no easy way to autogenerate in index.

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I would only point out that “intuitive” (whatever that means; often it means similarity to something the user already knows) isn’t the same as “easy to use” or “having a good workflow”.

Cheers,

Keith

I didn’t come up with the Metronome :smile: I’ve used it for a thousand years and know where it is and how it works. But it’s an example for pointing out the flaws of searching the manual. If I start using a recording-application like Ardour and I need to use a metronome I expect to find a topic in the manual about the metronome, how to activate, how to configure (maybe situated under “recording”).
But then again, to get acquainted with software like Ardour (or Blender, or Gimp etc) it’s better to start reading the manual from page 1 and be introduced to the gui and most important features. You then know where to find the Metronome-button and right-mouse to quickly get to the configuration of it.

Note: maybe the younger people in our community don’t know what a traditional metronome looks like and won’t recognise the button? :upside_down_face:

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Fair enough, I’ll see about that.

There’s probably more to it.
I would suggest that there are different ways of thinking and solving problems between one and another person.
So is there a difference between the approach of software-development teams I guess.
Long time ago, I started with Cubase and it never felt right, had to use the manual a lot to find out how to do things. Nothing was obvious. I switched to Cakewalk and it instantly fitted. Everything worked as I expected. It was as if the programmers were exactly thinking the same way as I did. I have tried Cubase later on but with the same result. Ended up with Sonar which was again familiar from the start.
Of course this is little bit exaggerated. But I think intuitivity exists and is not dependant of what one already knows and has experienced. Ardour for me is not intuitive but probably for other people it is.
(and I’ve used Ardour since version 4.x almost a decade). I guess I think different than the developers do (ah, when can I have a dedicated detachable piano-roll? :wink: ).
But no misunderstanding I’m really glad that I can use Ardour and a big thanks to the Ardour-team.

ah, when can I have a dedicated detachable piano-roll?

When The Sky Shatters, The Sun Shines Black, And Rivers Weep Like Men, when the vengeful seas spit forth terrible leviathans and birth upon their waves a great tempest to wash away all that human hands have wrought, when the raining stars unite the kingdoms of earth beneath a banner of colorless flame and after the scalding light of the final dawn rent oblivion’s womb to be born.

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Sooo… v9?

:rofl:

Cheers,

Keith

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Enjoy: The Ardour Manual - Metronome :slight_smile:

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