Plugin Parameter Order

Getting Stuff Done How do I .... ?
#1

Hi,

I saw this post: Order of plugin parameters

and wanted to ask if there by now is any way to order plugin parameters for control surfaces (like MackieControl). Logic allows this via a “secret” plist file that is created when you make a default setting for a plugin and I really don’t want to miss that feature.

Thanks for any hints!

#2

There is not. They are presented in the order the plugin presents them.

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#3

Dangit, thanks anyway! I guess I’d have to work around by creating an external app or something… Or maybe you have an idea how and where to implement that in the existing code? I can’t seem to find this specific ordering in the mackie control code… ardour/libs/surfaces/mackie at master · Ardour/ardour · GitHub

#4

That’s the point: there is no specific ordering. We ask the plugin for the nth parameter, starting at zero. It gives us what it gives us.

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#5

Right, I guess the question was more like “where to implement a reordering so that boilerplate in the single surface plugins can be avoided”.

#6

Probably Plugin::nth_parameter() … you’d have to have to some lookup table that translated from “actual n-th” to “user-desired n-th”. You’d have to store those choices, possibly on both a per-session and application level, and reload them appropriately. However, this is a virtual method that calls into ::nth_parameter() so you’d also likely want to change the method heirarchy to have a common boilerplate ::nth_parameter() that does the mapping and then calls ::renamed_nth_parameter() to get the actual param.

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#7

Right, thanks! Maybe I can look into getting something similar as in Logic going (i.e. some mapping file per plugin).

#8

Ultimately, you’d also need an entire GUI dialog to allow the user to reorder the parameters :slight_smile:

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#9

We do have a display priority for plugin controls; but

  • only Faderport8/16 uses that
  • only LV2 plugins set it

There is currently no trivial way to change the display priority. A Lua script is currently the only way for plugins other than LV2.

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#10

I think the idea is for the user rather than the plugin to set the order.

What would a Lua script do?

#11

You can change the priority to what the user would like with a script.

#12

Can it operate at the nth_parameter() level?

#13

Yes, nth_plugin(), nth_parameter()

EDIT: I was wrong. Since to C++ passes a const reference of the ParameterDesciptor to Lua, changes are not propagated back.

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#14

So if I get that right it would make most sense to insert a hierarchy into the “display priority” like
user-supplied.conf>ardour-supplied.conf>plugin-internal.conf>by-numbers.default.conf

I don’t know if having a UI should be a deal breaker here, as said for Logic it’s also kind of a “secret” text file, I made myself a UI for that. Or is there some kind of database in an Ardour install that such info should be stored in? That would of course require internal tools to edit that. :thinking:

#15

I’d more likely prefer plugin-parameter-orders.xml with a node per tuple (plugin API + plugin ID)

There’s no “database”. Our state is always serialized and deserialized to/from XML., for better or for worse.

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#16

Also, Ardour is never going to supply its own priorites, and “by numbers” is identical to “by plugin”.

So it’s really just “user preferences” > “numerical order” (no conf file needed for the latter)

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#17

Right, I just thought there could be the option in there for Ardour itself :man_shrugging:

So it’s down to where e.g. the LV2 plugins are polled for their “display priority” in favor of plain numbers - always check if theres a user supplied priority list in /plugin_metadata/plugin_parameter_orders (?) for that plugin and in case there is, use that.

Then, all control plugins should be checked if they even use that “display priority”, the “Faderport 8/16” plugin can be used as an example.

I never tried to set up the Ardour sources but maybe around the winter holidays there might be some free time to look into it. :face_with_monocle:

#18

@x42 can comment more if needed, but i am fairly sure that LV2Plugin::nth_parameter() will return the nth parameter by display priority order (if set). I could be wrong.

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#19

I don’t think it does.

This is pretty much all places the display_priority is used.

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But anyway I realize that the priority list will do only part of what I really want, because to map out my control surfaces (Mackie C4 and others) I also need to be able to insert blanks, which again is possible only in Logic.

So far theres no other DAW really that can do that, apart from creating a hand-mapped project. I spent a lot of time mapping all my plugins, converting that to a new format would be no problem but losing my mappings would be a big step back :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

#20

No, it returns the nth’ parameter in the sequence they are defined in the .ttl.
Display-priority is an optional port-property: LV2 Port Properties which can also be added after the fact.

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