How to edit a podcast with relative chapter marker?

Hi there,

I record and edit my podcast with Ardour. In order to get chapter marker I use a lot of marker and export them to a txt-file. This is very useful. I upload this to my wordpress site and import the chapter marker with the txt-file.

But there is some inconvenience in the editing process. I record my podcast and during the recording I set the marker with the tab key. I mark the chapters and I mark the pieces which I have to edit after the recording. After the recording I edit the audio track and delete some disturbing stuff like unwanted noise, breathing, coughs and so on.

Now the problem: The chapter marker stays in the absolute position in the timeline. For instance: I delete 10 sec there is a gap I move the audio to the left, the marker stays in his position. I have to change marker again and position it on the right place. But there is more. The other markers of the audio track are now on the wrong position too. I have problems to find the right positions.

Is there a way? I wish all the markers would stay in there relative position and move with the audio track to the left.

Cu,
Stefan

I don’t think there is a way currently to tie markers to the time in a region they were placed. It could be a worthwhile feature request, but a few things to think about:

What happens if you are recording multiple tracks at once? And you choose to only edit one region? Where does the marker go or what happens to it?

That could be solved by using a multi-input track, and then splitting it out to mono after the fact to edit everything at once, but that is far from ideal. Just some things to think about.

Seablade

I remember asking a similar question (in my case, importing markers that were inserted in the file by a standalone recording device) and was told Ardour would need to support region markers in order to implement that feature, and that it was on the list but not anywhere near the top of the list. So it may come eventually.

Some other DAWs allow you to do this. For just one example, the free version of DaVinci Resolve has both timeline markers and region markers; in the integrated Fairlight DAW you can drop markers on specific regions in specific tracks and they stay in that location in the region.

Yes, unfortunately this would require a different type of marker than Ardour currently supports. Markers at this point in time are only “global” and have no connection to regions.

As noted by @Bhurley, some other DAWs implement other kinds of markers.

There’s a feature request already in our bug tracker from several years ago: 0004128: Per-region markers - Ardour Bug Tracker

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This is sad to hear. No implementation yet. This is a missing feature in Ardour. Is there any software out there which has a feature like this. I don’t can use Davinci Resolve.

Another idea: Is is possible to start a script maybe in lua which moves all markers to the left for a given amount of time?

Or can I simply select all cd-markers and drag them to the left with the mouse?

DaVinci Resolve will run on Linux, Mac, and Windows. To edit video you need a powerful GPU, but you should be able to use the built-in Fairlight DAW on a less powerful machine; I used to use it on a 2014 i5 Mac Mini with integrated Intel graphics. For Linux it works best with CentOS, which has been sunset, but people have reported luck running it in Manjaro, Ubuntu, etc.

Reaper can do region markers as well; regions are called “items” in Reaper. Reaper can even do markers for specific takes if you are doing multiple takes in layers.

None of this is to cast a bad light on Ardour: I do all my editing in ardour as it’s so much better than any other DAW for editing.

I think I found the right word for this feature: Ripple Delete Sequence Markers. I tested Reaper. Reaper does it. Why not Ardour?

Because Ardour does some things that Reaper doesn’t do. Why doesn’t Reaper do those? And every DAW does a few things that none of the others do. Why don’t they all do them?

Every DAW has limited development resources, and this feature has not been a big issue for our user base so far. That’s likely what the Reaper devs will tell you if you ask them about their “missing features” too.

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I put a lot of time and effort in my podcast setup with Ardour. I don’t want to switch to Reaper even if Reaper does things different. I’m not the only one who wants this. Ripple editing across all tracks - #5 by bachstudies

You could change your workflow a bit. I edit podcasts in Ardour as well, and I do all my trimming and cutting first before I listen through and add markers for sounds I want to attenuate (e.g., breaths). That way I add those markers after the file has already been trimmed down to length and the markers won’t move because I’m done trimming the regions.

Just FYI, I spent a few hours yesterday adding this feature to ardour. It’s not finished yet, but it will be in the next release. I’m not totally clear on what the workflow should be after the markers are created. What do you want to be able to do with them?

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Paul, that’s amazing! I can think of a few use cases:

  1. As the original OP noted, having markers that stay with the region is useful if you want to mark places in the region that will end up moving when you make cuts or additions elsewhere.

  2. Another use case is being able to move a region to another track or later in the timeline but have that marker stay with it.

  3. This also opens the door to being able to import files recorded on standalone recorders such as the Sound Devices MixPre series or some of the Tascam recorders, which embed markers in their metadata. If Ardour could read those metadata and apply the markers to imported files, it would save a lot of time and would be a useful workflow improvement for those of us who prefer using a standalone recorder instead of recording to a laptop or desktop machine.

Regarding (3), I did some tests yesterday to load the “Cue” chunk from WAV files (though similar data in other formats would also be covered). Ardour can load them, although the whole design of this (in the file format is clunky as all hell. The “Cue” chunk doesn’t provide names for any of the cue points, so there also needs to be a “Labl” chunk that plays this role.

Regarding (1+2), the markers are associated with the “sources” (files) that the Region represents a part (or all) of. They will always be present in any region that uses a source that has markers, no matter where you move it.

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On the Sound Devices MixPre recorders, it is possible to label the cue points (aka markers), and those names get imported along with the region/item markers in Reaper. See screen shot below; I labeled the first marker “FIRST” and the second one “SECOND” in the MixPre to see if it worked. So it’s definitely possible: the dotted vertical lines show the markers that got imported in the .wav files recorded by the MixPre.

Paul thats great. I appreciate your efforts. It would be nice, if the user can switch this feature on an off for people who don’t like this behavior. As an option to toggle like in reaper “ripple edit all tracks” on or off.

The workflow which is in my mind: I record a track, set marker during the recording and after this first recording: I go back to the markers make some cuts and use some of the markers as cd track chapter markers. My usecase for an podcast is simply what @Bhurley has described with 1.) But the other ideas are very interesting too. This would be an evolution. :wink:

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I, too, would enjoy ripple all tracks functionality. REAPER switches between off, ripple one track or ripple all (as do many of the other DAWs equipped for album creation). If all markers (CD, regular (TAB) etc) ripple along with tracks it would make album creation very nice indeed. While it is possible to do all edits and only then add markers, it is clear from research that being able to edit gaps post-markers is a very common thing in acoustic projects. It somewhat complements the idea of mastering the multi-project versus first exporting/bouncing to stereo. This is what DAWs are made for :stuck_out_tongue:

Send me one of these files, please. paul@ardour.org

It’s not a on-off feature. The markers are permanently associated with the source files (audio or MIDI). They are not in the marker lane (see shot above). They move with regions no matter where they are placed (vertically, in tracks, or horizontally across time).

Global markers cannot be rippled with regions, because there is no association between them.

The point of the newly-emerging region/source markers is to have markers that are unambiguously associated with a specific point in a chunk of data, not a point on the global timeline.

Sending shortly. Thanks!