Hi
I also think it’s too bad that the windows version isn’ t released. Of course, i respect that choice. I use it on my mac but it’s a shame i can’t use it on my laptop.
Anyway, i really like the program so keep up the good work.
Hi guys, just read this thread.
As someone familiar with similar discussions / arguments on other FOSS forums, I might humbly suggest that changing your (ardour devs and supporters) approach to people whining about windows ports would do you and the project good in the long term.
You are always going to get people from the closed source world who are only interested in project X meeting their needs, yet who aren’t prepared to donate.
Getting annoyed with them only risks making the forum community look unwelcoming to others at first glance, which is really not a good thing in my view.
It is possible to say what you want to about the lack of a windows port in a nicer way. Maybe a canned response on file to such trolls would be a good idea? Save you time in replying and ensure a consistent (diplomatic) answer 
Risking being percieved as aggressive in posts isn’t likely to be good for user uptake OR donations.
I’m not being critical, only trying to be constructive.
1st of all: I’m not surprised that this 3ad is still alive.
2nd: I readed the whole 3ad again, so I have to clarify my position.
I’m not exactly asking for a Windows port, I’m asking more platform-indipendent approach.
I’m not a Windows lover (even if i’m a user of it) - i still prefer OS/2 over it, honestly - but i really don’t understand “closed-horizonts” views.
I believe that any OS has its own target: Linux is more server oriented (i’ll never trust Windows for this kind of tasks), the “proof in pudding” is its killerapp: Apache
The Windows one is certainly Office, so it’s more a home/office OS.
For multimedia (my favourite field) we can open a long discussion, btw it’s generally a MAC specialization (even if i believe that graphics is the right one).
Of course, with today PC computing power almost any OS can do everything, but we are also talking about open source so the approach is equally important (to me); in other words i’m a bit scared that Linux apps developers tends to stay in it to convince Windows users to migrate. They don’t think that this approach goes to damange other open OSes (Haiku and AROS are just two examples), that may bring active users/developers, for the benefit of the whole community.
And “opening the doors” to Apple (that have even worst proprietary-approach than MicroSoft) don’t tastes so freedom to me.
So my request IS NOT for a Windows port, is for platform indipendency.
Last but not least, here’s some interesting projects i recently discovered:
- Clockwerk: a recently open sourced multi-track audio/video compositing and animation software for Haiku (BeOS);
- DarkWave Studio: a (GPLv3) Windows program is designed for the composition, synthesis and recording of digital music;
- Koblo Studio: a free, open source music editor with clever online collaboration features for OS/X and Windows.
Hope that my position is cleared now.
Greetings.
As stated in the 2nd (and corrected in the 3rd) post in this thread, there is a clear statement on why there is no windows port of Ardour on the website, in the form of a link to this article. 'nuff said. No other comments about why there is no windows port are relevant.
“many times we find ourselves having to salvage a song instead of aiding in the creative process, eh?”
I agree with this comment by Felix and it is actually an example of why I moved to Linux. I want my set up simple and efficient. There is a ton of Windows software that has everything but the kitchen sink but not necessarily what you really need and even then a lot of it runs fine in Wine. I even dropped using Logic Pro. Ardour forces you to record music rather than tweak the life out of it with endless tools and nightmare GUIs never mind all the OS problems inherent in Windows and even OSX.
We would love to use Ardour on Linux. Our (Intel) DAW is equipped with three t.c. electronic PowerCore DSP boards to get enougth power to run several plugins on every track of a production. As far as we know there is no linux driver for the PowerCore available. The PowerCore based plugins are available as VST or RTAS. Maybe we can run the VST plugins with Wine on Linux but how we get the PowerCore driver running? Therefor we have to use the Windows-OS with any other DAW-SW than Ardour.
Did you even READ the article I referenced? Have you even bothered to understand that the primary issues with a Windows port are social and not technical?
Years ago, the US government paid to develop the specification of a portable API to access operating system services. It is called POSIX. Ardour is written to use this API. To the extent that this API is available on Windows, Ardour is portable to Windows and in fact has been ported to Windows. But this has no impact on any of the social issues that are the real reason that we have never released a Windows version. If we were convinced that we could deal with the social issues, we could probably release a Windows port in a couple of months. There are no plans to do so.
We did not “open doors” to Apple. OS X just happens to do a very much better job of providing the POSIX API than Windows, and so it was much easier to port Ardour there. It also has a relatively small user base and their user communities are generally more informed, less vitriolic and more willing to support software developers who provide useful tools than the Windows world.
This thread was dead. But you’ve opened it up again, apparently still without reading (and certainly without addressing) any of the real concerns that we have and that are addressed in Bryce’s article. Either read it and talk about them, or please just leave this thread to die.
Did you even READ the article I referenced?Of course Paul, but seems that you didn't read my post instead.
And honestly, this seems a deaf discussion, IMHO.
Once again: I agree with you, POSIX compliance is != Windows but, as I already claimed:
Haiku is POSIX too !
So forget about Windows port, but please consider Haiku (and not only) one.
Last but not least: for those who won’t switch to Linux there’s OSX x86 (aka Hackintosh)…
Marco-
Let me try to spell this out for you. You don’t like that Ardour doesn’t run on Haiku? Port Jack to Haiku. Port all other dependencies of Ardour to Haiku. Since it is posix compliant it may not be difficult at all. Then port Ardour to Haiku.
This applies to any OS.
I believe a GTK port already exists that utilizes a port of X11, at least that is what a quick google tells me, which is by itself a lot of the hard work. Getting things like Jack running stably would be more.
The OS choices that exist exist because there are developers(Primarily Paul) that have the time to be able to support those platforms. Adding another platform into the mix is not a simple write once and forget it approach, even Posix compliant platforms can(And usually do) have differences in how they handle things. These result in different behaviors that have to be tested and developed for. This takes time and energy by a developer to support, and no small amount of either. There are no developers that currently run Haiku and work on Ardour. You want to port Ardour? Go ahead, but you would be primarily on your own to do so, and then you can submit patches back to Ardour for consideration so long as they don’t break any other OS support. Then be prepared to support the development of Ardour and its running on Haiku for the forseeable future.
You may think it is wrong that the dev team does not support other OSes. But if you think it is so wrong, pony up the dough to hire a dev to do all of the above. It is going to either take someone willing to do a LOT of work for free, in which case they would generally need a vested interest, or it will take hiring someone to do the lot of work.
This is a deaf discussion, mainly because people like you are ignoring the fact that it takes lots of time and effort (And in many cases money) to port and support new OSes, even other POSIX compliant OSes.
SeabladePort Jack to Haiku. Port all other dependencies of Ardour to Haiku.So, in other words, you're claiming the same as mine initial critic: Ardour is Linux only (meaning that is too mutch Linux dependent to port).
It’s the exact thing that I wanted to underline: the problem is not the POSIX compliance, but the heavy Linux dependency.
I also understand that is too late for Ardour to become platform indipendent, so you have to agree that this discussion targets aren’t the Ardour developers/users but others, that may use/help young promising multiplatform projects (such as Traverso or Koblo).
More: I suggest you to put their links in your FAQ, in order to redirect other OSes users in the right path.
Thanks in advice.
forart.it … you are getting close to the point where i will consider deleting this whole thread.
In the best case you are misinformed when you claim “Ardour is much too Linux dependent to port”, and in the worst case you are outright lying. Either way, you have created a thread of misinformation and worse. Ardour already runs on OS X, which you may have noticed IS NOT LINUX. There is code in svn to make it run on Windows (very old code, not current). You might have noticed that this OS is also NOT LINUX. It also runs on (at least one of the) BSD(s) and Solaris, which are also NOT LINUX.
So, I reiterate: Ardour will run on any platform capable of running JACK and that provides a substantial subset of POSIX. Porting it to a new platform that meets these requirements is relatively easy.
So, in other words, you're claiming the same as mine initial critic: Ardour is Linux only (meaning that is too mutch Linux dependent to port).
And just one more thing to underline exactly how wrong you are…
The part you quoted about porting Jack? Jack runs on Windows. Go to the Jack site and you will find a Windows installer. This is for many people about as far from Linux as you can get. GTK Runs on Windows. Those two dependencies by themselves are the VAST majority of dependencies Ardour utilizes. And a lot of the rest are a dependency on a POSIX compliant API, but even then work has been done to get around that on other systems that there are developers for.
So to put it flat out, Paul is correct, you are either very wrong and don’t realize it(As well as refusing to accept it), or lying to stir up trouble, aka trolling. At this point I personally believe the thread should be closed. Anything useful that can be said on the topic has been.
SeabladeHello,
Just to let you know: I’d be very interested in a Windows version. I use a lot of devices that are (sadly) not compatible with Linux. I would even be happy to pay to support the project.
Anyway, if you need beta-testers on Windows, I’d be more than happy to help.
++
This is drifting off topic for this thread, but I’d be happy to comment in a thread about comparisons between Ardour and the others. Might even start one. Always good to have a comparison chart to see what different packages support, and how to do the same ‘things’ using different programs’ various methodologies. Something like the Unix Rosetta Stone, but for DAW’s.
Hi. I have been using Linux on my desktop for about 5 years now so I am definitely a Linux only user. Lately I have been searching for software that would allow me and my friend (a windows user) to collaborate on some music projects.
Point 1. As I have been a commercial software developer I get all to well the point about all the work supporting a new platform especially when that platform is not the one you use for your daily life.
Point 2. It seems to me that the Ardour project has some financial problems and that the new “chose to pay” approche has been some what successful. Would the bigger user base for Ardour on windows generate more money for the project?
Point 3. I am following some other open source projects too and I cant see that a bigger community can be a problem.
What are your thoughts?
Hello people, as a user of Mac, Windows, and Linux all the time, and a developer on all as well, I felt compelled to throw my 2c in on this. Each of these operating systems have their inherent strengths and weaknesses.
Windows is easy to setup and everyone and their brother knows exactly how to use it. It’s embedded in everything. It’s really the best value for a casual computer user. However, it’s proprietary code base and closed source curtail your options as a developer to the point where you have to use MS tools to develop. I like VB.NET, but not for everything. I also like C, but not for everything. In fact, I think I’d pick PERL for most things I have to accomplish…haha.
The Mac is a great multimedia OS, and has good support for most things UNIX. I use a Mac as my primary system, since it gives me everything, bash, Apple software, Office software, and a slew of pretty good dev tools. I have to agree though, that when you get into Apple’s innards, they are fairly protective of it like Microsoft. This is the price of commercial OS software.
Linux is possibly the most amazingly extensible and customizable environment the world has ever seen. It’s development tools are second to none, especially for C and C++. Not to mention it’s all (well, mostly) open source, and free. With the developments from you guys with software like Ardour, JACK, Jamin, etc, it really showcases the efficiencies of the Linux OS and it’s viability as a multimedia workstation OS. It is not without it’s drawbacks though, just like any OS. For your basic user, it’s NOT going to be easy to understand how to do some things. Think of trying to walk your mom through ./configure and sudo make install! And we think of these things as simple. Commercial OS software takes these “techy” processes out of view of the average user, who has no internal computing know-how, and probably doesn’t want any. Although, with the newest Ubuntu releases I’ve been checking out, this is starting to go the other way too. (good for the average user!)
Moreover, no OS is superior to another. They just have different intended focal points. The best practice (IMO and experience) is to leverage the power of each for their intended purpose. Given recent advances in virtualization technology, you can have a real powerhouse multi-OS system all in one box.
Paul, I totally understand not wanting to release a Windows version. But I do understand why many people would want it. If your basing your development and fiscal model depending on people that want new development to be willing to pay for it, your going to see a much more informed and willing community in which to do business if you don’t release a Windows version.
On a side note, a quick thank you to the Ardour/JACK development team. You guys have really done a stellar job on Ardour and JACK.
Cheers,
–Ed–
windows is shit. this is my very subject point of view to this topic, but still think its worth mentioning it here.
You're a small-time publisher to begin with. It doesn't matter if you port it to windows. One cannot become overwhelmed, because you're not big enough to become as such.
I am afraid this is what your entire post is based on, and is false, thus invalidating your entire post.
Take a look at Mantis. I am helping out the project with trying to organize in there, but it has overflown due to a lack of availiable time for developers to work on, and update issues when they do work on them. Take a look at the Manual, same story. There isn’t enough time for the develoeprs to work on it. They are ALREADY overwhelmed.
As I have said in the past, the port to Windows would require a developer working on it and dedicating their time to supporting it and building it as a distribution. At the very least that requires a developer that uses Windows on a regular basis, which is a rarity in the community supporting Ardour at the moment, and noone has come forward wishing to take that load and proven themselves consistent enough to do so that I know of. (Could be wrong, but I haven’t heard of anyone)
SeabladeAlright. I know I’m bumping up a dead thread. I’m also new to this program.
And you know what? I’ve found myself snobbed. I realize a.) That Linux and Mac OS’s are much closer, therefore easier to port… and b.) The goal of this program is to make people rely less on Windows.
Then I get into an issue here: Windows users tend to not help small developers?
That’s a hasty generalization, a clear logical fallacy.
I switched my netbook from XP to Ubuntu Netbook Remix, 9.04; however, being on a gaming rig such as my main computer, it is set up with a better sound system for recording. It isn’t that I don’t like Linux (I think Ubuntu is one of the best operating systems made. I love it. It’s just, right now, it’d be a bad investment for me to throw money into it). Secondly, I enjoy smaller groups. Do you know why? Because they listen to the words of their users and actually care about what we think.
What you have done is snob the voices of windows users for petty social views. Correct, you cannot port windows without violating those views; but, I find them flawed to begin with.
Opening it to windows, while opening it to a larger audience, would, as the article stated, risk the support people becoming overwhelmed by mindless complaints. I have an answer to this problem: You’re a small-time publisher to begin with. It doesn’t matter if you port it to windows. One cannot become overwhelmed, because you’re not big enough to become as such. As a linux lover, of course it’d be nice to go full linux, but not giving any support and snobbing windows users is just a low blow that will alienate and cause hate between possible users of your finely-made software.
I ask that you reconsider your position on a windows port. I do because I just don’t feel windows is that bad. I even bought vista, and while it’s a terrible OS, I stick with it. Why? I’m a gamer, too.
Thank you for your time reading this,
- Ryan
forart.it, please stop talking bullshit. i don’t understand why you have to whine about POSIX. FYI, windows is posix-compliant too, and then what? posix (not) compliance is not what makes an OS a different platform. supporting windows is NOT a condition for being multiplatform. if some software supports more than 1 (one) platform then it’s multiplatform, even if your platform is not supported.
and then, oh well… start lame arguments about why they won’t make tremendous amount of work for you for free!