Sad but true..

I just have to share this with you guys…
After waiting serveral months for A3, after checking this site few times per day, after reading another release promises, after spending few dollars on earlier releases… I decided to buy Logic…

And what’s inside? Lots of plugins, loops, great, clear interface etc.! Everything that unfortunatelly Ardour is missing. This lead me to only one conclusion: there’s no way something could be good and cheap…

But Ardour was great base for me to start with mixing process. Thank’s Paul for this.

So you had to pay a company that employs a team of fulltime developers (and has the resources to license extra content and plugins) because you couldn’t get all of that for nothing? so… what’s new? Are you paid for the work you do?

@linuxdsp: I have paid for full product and I get full product. It’s just a thought that nothing’s for free.


It’s just a thought that nothing’s for free.

Unfortunately that’s normally the case. (And why should software be any different? Lots of things I want aren’t free, but that’s just the way the world works). As I understand it, the GPL (and therefore Ardour and other projects) was / is never about software being available for no cost, that just happens as an (un-intentional or perhaps intentional?) side-effect of its stated purpose of allowing the user freedom to use / modify / distribute the software without restriction. As I’ve mentioned in many other threads, what you do have is choice either to accept a free (no cost) solution and also accept some of the ‘risk’ that it may not provide all that you need, or to pay for a solution (and accept the terms under which it is offered - check the terms and conditions of use for all those included loops too if you intend to publish any work commercially). The benefits of a project such as Ardour is also that [big name computer company] might one day decide to stop supporting Logic, however, in theory a project like Ardour will continue to have community support even if the original developer decides he no longer wants to be involved.

I’ve used all Mac , Windows , and Linux software . I like the fact I can donate or subscribe to help developers out , Linux is a nice free alterative to Mac and Windows , yes it doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of the Big Boys , but it is close enough and has not prevented me from making music .

I use Cubase, Logic, Reaper, on Mac and Windows, and Ardour on linux and while each has its own feature set, I don’t think the commercial alternatives de-value Ardour at all (which is what I felt was implied in the original post). On a related topic, what I do think de-values (audio) software far more ‘dangerously’ is the ‘slash and burn’ discounts being offered by many commercial companies, which while, they may imply good value for the user, beg the question, does a reduction from $100’s to $10’s really reflect a commitment to the product - or just a short term (unsustainable and often loss-making) commercial strategy at the expense of the market (and smaller companies). Anyway - what I think Ardour represents is a very professional piece of software, which is ideal, if you don’t need all the extras (and if you do, there’s a community of users producing loops, drum kits etc, often for free and with very ‘open’ licensing)

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It’s all preference. I personally got sick of how much I had to maintain Windows and all it’s software then have to pay for phone assistance when I couldn’t bring it back to normal working order. I felt cornered and got fed up. Paying for something that doesn’t work for me was frustrating. Found Linux and never looked back. Thought about Mac but way out of the price range for me but thats me. I’d prefer to donate to developers that help others with their software than to be forced to pay for a problem that wasn’t mine to begin with. I have found that the developers who passionately build helpful software on linux are readily available to help and guide those of us who run into any kind of bug issues vs asking for my credit card number first before I get any kind of help. Again that’s just my perspective.

well I’m using my notebook primarily for music, and since I need midi I chose Logic on a Mac. But since Ardour supports midi as well I consider my next computer to run Linux. Always wanted to, now the time has come to make the comlete switch to open source.

I was using Logic as well…up until the last OS X upgrade which rendered it useless (along with Garageband,OnStage,iDVD,and other apps). I paid big money for it…now if I want to continue using it I need to upgrade to the next version for another $200.00. I just can’t see shelling out that kind of money again for an app that was working fine before the OS upgrade. Something Apple should have warned us about.
Don’t get me wrong…nothing wrong with Logic,ProTools,etc…love them.But this is more about Apple than any of the other DAWs out there…and I am a Mac Addict! Been on the platform since before the Macintosh…since the Apple II.
For now I am trying the Ardour demo…and it looks like I will be going for the full version.

I started my music production journey with Ardour, and have recently acquired other commercial software because I need a setup that’s ready for production, right now (support for software instruments, AU plugins etc.).

Having said this, I wish I could use Ardour instead. For this reason I have decided to subscribe. I only give a small amount a month, but the hope is that by the time I have given the equivalent of what I might pay for commercial software (say somewhere between $200 and $500) Ardour will be performing well enough for me to use it instead - full time.

I think that if enough of us are prepared to invest in it’s development, Ardour has the potential to be the “next big DAW”.

Perhaps we could start a crowd-funding campaign to get a Major stable release out that “just works” out of the box on both Linux and Mac OS X? I would be happy to invest some time in making this happen there is a consensus that it’s a good idea and the way forward!

I meant to say: “if there is a consenus…”

Great idea, but how do you envisage the extra money being deployed to speed up the development process?

As I understand it, Paul is already full time on developing Ardour, and other contributors are unpaid. Changing that arrangement would create some management issues.

Actually, if this could be done by having “bug-fixing” and “new development” branches, that would give users a useful choice. I suspect that users would be more willing to contribute if they knew they were funding a specific part of the project (rather like the current scheme for voting for a feature by paying for it)

anahata: other developers do occasionally receive financial (and even more occasionally, other) compensation for their involvement. it isn’t very much money, though, and some months (eg. last month, august 2013) the project still didn’t reach my monthly income goal (which is partly why i do bits and pieces of other work too).

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@Dunnery, and everyone here:
such a good feeling to read your words! C R E A T I V I T Y. Means, when you have less technical tools, you have to be more creative to sound as you want to… Means, when have less fancy plugins, have to build your sound before rec it, and put your mics in the good place! Means, are you sure you’re needing all those digital stuff? Music is a living thing, you just need Ardour to record & mix it, WE just need to play, LIVE… Machines are not supposed to replace human feelings. Something like, ain’t it? (& sorry if you think it’s a flame throw…)

I started out with the very first protools in the 80s, I changed to logic because of all the continuous upgrades that I had to pay for and after ten years I’m switching to ardour. Why? Because I’m Sick of the sound of logic. Everyone’s album sounds the same. Same plug ins, same algorithms, same mastering, same keyboards. Ardour will give me a new challenge, which means new creativity, which means different things will happen. I don’t need plug ins, they sound horrible anyway. It make s me laugh that people buy software for plug in because the picture looks like the real thing. A Fairchild compressor for $50 ha ha. Well it looks good on the picture. I have a real Wurlitzer, hammond and electric guitar. I am happy to support the developers because otherwise we have Disneyland with no cool shops. The same shit over and over by the same corporations. Give ardour your support and get creative. Logic is amazing and pro tools is not bad either but if you are looking for creativity the ardour is the new God.

I’m recording my new album on ardour. I’ve been in the business for a long time and done everything there is to do so I need something new to trigger some new stuff. I always try to use a different guitar and every album otherwise you just play the same shit over and over. Different guitars force you to play different things. This is how I’m approachi ardour. It’s making me do different stuff. Ardour is fun, it’s new for me and I love the whole linux thing. I’m going to do a film about it. I’m not against any recording device but I think complaining about ardour is a little unfair. Many of the guys who develope linux and related software do it out of the love of their hearts. They don’t have a unlimited budget and quite frankly, what they manage to achieve is nothing short of brilliance given their financial and time restrictions. I will be telling everyone about linux and about ardour on my documentary. It’s all good.

Machines are not supposed to replace human feelings.

Well, as more of a techno head than a guitarist I might disagree. :stuck_out_tongue: But I couldn’t agree more with the underlying point. In the early noughties I spent many hours and years trying and failing to produce electronic music on Windows. I had the full-price version of FL Studio, with all its many bundled plugins, and was forever downloading demos of the latest hyped up synth and/or effects VSTs. My music was always going to sound better when I got this plugin, that piece of gear, some other thing that took my mind off having to actually get my hands dirty and really get to know my tools.

Believe it or not, Ardour 3 helped me pick up where I left off all those years ago. It’s not a studio itself, it doesn’t twist your arm to work in a particular way, it’s a very general and flexible blank canvas on which you paint your musical ideas, and as Dunnery says, it invites a ‘just add creativity’ attitude. As for the people who object to Ardour not coming with bundled plugins… why does it need to? We have the full MDA set, we have the Calf suite, the TAL suite, the Distrho ports such as Obxd and Dexed, not to mention the LinuxDSP crew’s commercial work. There is some absolute gold running out of the box on Linux, including instruments and effects I use regularly, getting to know and lowering my inspiration/perspiration ratio. What’s available puts a lot of all-in-one proprietary packages to shame. I’d prefer that the Ardour team carried on doing what they’re doing, which is improving the stability of the sequencer, than trying to become FL Studio.

Look, horses for courses, different strokes for different folks etc etc — but my Ardour-based ‘studio’ is everything I’ve ever wanted from computer music making. Open source software ‘ecosystems’ develop more organically and unpredictably than proprietary ones, and some people don’t like that. That’s fine. But when I think of how far the Linux audio scene has come even in the small time I’ve been messing around with its products, I’m glad I’m some small part in it. It doesn’t bother me that the big names in music technology aren’t out in force. I would rather have a smaller number of inexpensive tools that I know well and push to their limit in terms of composition, just like the pioneers of techno music once did. All the well-marketed ’sound quality’ and big-name endorsements mean zilch compared to feeling able to express yourself musically. I feel that way now, and I sure didn’t in my Windows days.

Have to go now. The soapbox rental people charge for late returns.

I remember switching from pro tools to logic and thinking logic sucked. But it wasn’t that it sucked, it was that it was different tha pro tools, different than what I was used to. I misunderstood the learning curve of logic as a flaw in the program. This is how I’m approaching Ardour. It’s just a learning curve. I didn’t download the plug ins with ardour or any of the effects, I don’t like the sound of plug ins. I prefer the real thing. I a finishing off my last project in logic before switching to ardour. I don’t care what it hasn’t got that logic and pro tools have. I’m interested in how creative I can get with what’s there.
I will be using it as a recording device and it seems to function amazingly well in that capacity. It sounds different than logic which is another huge bonus and it seems to be fairly user friendly. On top of that it is written by independents which I love. I am very happy to be part of this community.

In this world of manny words meaning nothing, it is easy, more than ever, to manipulate people and push up “economics” of strong which is going to be stronger.
There are more and more words, meaning less and less, people do not understand even them selves, their “e-motions”, engines that move the economics.
The trouble comes when the strong one looses the vision. See what is goning on, Apple sells watches, soon washing machines, ovens and stoves…
…it hangs on cache, money must come, more and more and more… and…
People need visions, not economics, not functions, not “products”.
For myself, ardour isn´t product, its a revolt and revolution in evolution.
It is so plastic that you can form it and integrate where you need it.
This is great, thx Paul and all devel´s!!!

People crying here about functions missing in ardour, crying an telling us “…and so i paid for xy DAW”, need to understand the idea that came from Stallman.
R.Stallman and manny others gave us an idea, made it possible and i believe that most of us do know what is all about it.
The words “good and cheap” are strange, when they stay together in attempt to express some meaning.
And that is our problem, the semantics.

Ardour is good and not cheap, all the universe knows it!!!
But its evolution and growth is amazing, comparing it to evolution of Avids buisiness strategy, apples stocks and so on.

Look at this, see the goals and imagine.

Don´t cry for functions, they are invented to bring more money, more patents, more stocks, not the solutions.
Peace upon all of you.

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