Recording possible, but no playback (or vice versa)

michaa · July 17, 2020, 4:21pm

I installed ardour today on Debian/sid aka unstable (please note, also if it is called “unstable” it is very stable. I exclusively run such systems for more then 10 years now ).
ALSA+pulseaudio, sblive!CT4620 (+HDAintel onboard inactive + HDAnvidia inactive on GraCa).

When I set the audioserver to ALSA, I can record (visible waveform track), but I can’t get any audible output when I try to playback.

If now I change the audioserver to pulseaudio I can playback the recording made while ALSA was active.

But with audioserver set to pulseaudio there are no devices to select and no recording is possible (no waveform in track).

So I am confused how to configure ardour in a way which makes recordings AND playback possible.

As an additional question: Is there a way to bind a mono recording to both channels? I do not understand why it is bound to the left channel only.

x42 · July 17, 2020, 4:29pm

Most likely the playback device is in use and Ardour fails to request it from pulseaudio.
Is this Ardour from ardour.org/download ? That comes with a tool to ask pulseaudio to yield.

While ardour is running using the ALSA backend call

 cd /tmp && wget https://community.ardour.org/files/adevices.sh && bash ./adevices.sh

It will not modify your system; the script lists all soundcards, their current settings and applications using them, etc.

Check if the playback device is used by pulseaudio, or ardour (or copy/paste all the output to the forum here for us to interpret it).

x42 · July 17, 2020, 4:32pm

That is the default, there is a mono-to-stereo panner on every mono track to a stereo-master.

Possibly there are some follow up errors due to your audio setup (ALSA / pulse). So let’s sort those out first.

michaa · July 17, 2020, 4:57pm

That was quick

I have the Debian version installed! :

apt policy ardour
ardour:
Installiert: 1:6.2.0+ds1-1

    Part I: ALSA
    Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version k5.7.9-towo.1-siduction-amd64.

    Card 0 (Intel):
      * Playback Device 0 (ALC883 Analog):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Intel,0,0):
          closed

      * Playback Device 1 (ALC883 Digital):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Intel,1,0):
          closed

      * Recording Device 0 (ALC883 Analog):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Intel,0,0):
          closed

      * Recording Device 2 (ALC883 Alt Analog):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Intel,2,0):
          closed

    Card 1 (NVidia):
      * Playback Device 3 (HDMI 0):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:NVidia,3,0):
          closed

      * Playback Device 7 (HDMI 1):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:NVidia,7,0):
          closed
     * Playback Device 8 (HDMI 2):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:NVidia,8,0):
          closed

      * Playback Device 9 (HDMI 3):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:NVidia,9,0):
          closed

      * Playback Device 10 (HDMI 4):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:NVidia,10,0):
          closed

    Card 2 (Live):
      * Playback Device 0 (ADC Capture/Standard PCM Playback):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Live,0,0):
          used by: ArdourGUI (PID 90547)
          access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED
          format: S16_LE
          subformat: STD
          channels: 2
          rate: 48000 (48000/1)
          period_size: 1024
          buffer_size: 2048

        - Subdevice 1 (hw:Live,0,1):
          closed

        - Subdevice 2 (hw:Live,0,2):
          closed

       - Subdevice 3 (hw:Live,0,3):
          closed

        - Subdevice 4 (hw:Live,0,4):
          closed

        - Subdevice 5 (hw:Live,0,5):
          closed

        - Subdevice 6 (hw:Live,0,6):
          closed

        - Subdevice 7 (hw:Live,0,7):
          closed

        - Subdevice 8 (hw:Live,0,8):
          closed

        - Subdevice 9 (hw:Live,0,9):
          closed

        - Subdevice 10 (hw:Live,0,10):
          closed

        - Subdevice 11 (hw:Live,0,11):
          closed

        - Subdevice 12 (hw:Live,0,12):
          closed

        - Subdevice 13 (hw:Live,0,13):
          closed

       - Subdevice 14 (hw:Live,0,14):
          closed

        - Subdevice 15 (hw:Live,0,15):
          closed

        - Subdevice 16 (hw:Live,0,16):
          closed

        - Subdevice 17 (hw:Live,0,17):
          closed

        - Subdevice 18 (hw:Live,0,18):
          closed

        - Subdevice 19 (hw:Live,0,19):
          closed

        - Subdevice 20 (hw:Live,0,20):
          closed

        - Subdevice 21 (hw:Live,0,21):
          closed

        - Subdevice 22 (hw:Live,0,22):
          closed

        - Subdevice 23 (hw:Live,0,23):
          closed

      - Subdevice 24 (hw:Live,0,24):
          closed

        - Subdevice 25 (hw:Live,0,25):
          closed

        - Subdevice 26 (hw:Live,0,26):
          closed

        - Subdevice 27 (hw:Live,0,27):
          closed

        - Subdevice 28 (hw:Live,0,28):
          closed

        - Subdevice 29 (hw:Live,0,29):
          closed

        - Subdevice 30 (hw:Live,0,30):
          closed

        - Subdevice 31 (hw:Live,0,31):
          closed

      * Playback Device 2 (Multichannel Capture/PT Playback):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Live,2,0):
          closed

       - Subdevice 1 (hw:Live,2,1):
          closed

        - Subdevice 2 (hw:Live,2,2):
          closed

        - Subdevice 3 (hw:Live,2,3):
          closed

        - Subdevice 4 (hw:Live,2,4):
          closed

        - Subdevice 5 (hw:Live,2,5):
          closed

        - Subdevice 6 (hw:Live,2,6):
          closed

        - Subdevice 7 (hw:Live,2,7):
          closed

      * Playback Device 3 (Multichannel Playback):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Live,3,0):
          closed

      * Recording Device 0 (ADC Capture/Standard PCM Playback):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Live,0,0):
          used by: ArdourGUI (PID 90547)
          access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED
          format: S16_LE
          subformat: STD
          channels: 2
          rate: 48000 (48000/1)
          period_size: 1024
          buffer_size: 2048

      * Recording Device 1 (Mic Capture):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Live,1,0):
          closed

      * Recording Device 2 (Multichannel Capture/PT Playback):
        - Subdevice 0 (hw:Live,2,0):
          closed

Sorry, I don’t understand how to quote here, it works differently as I am accustomed to.

It seems the samplerate is changing from 44100 to 48000 and can’t be changed back!

x42 · July 17, 2020, 5:08pm

OK so Ardour is using

Card 2 (Live):
 * Playback Device 0 (ADC Capture/Standard PCM Playback):
 * Recording Device 0 (ADC Capture/Standard PCM Playback):

…and not the onboard soundcard (Intel, ALC883). Is that what you expect?

What soundcard is that? “Live” isn’t a very good name for a hardware device to identify itself.

It has 31 subdevices as well also additional “Multichannel Capture/PT Playback” devices and even third “Multichannel Playback” device. All on the same hardware interface. That’s very unusual.

Perhaps Ardour plays back to an output that is not connected to a speaker/headphone on the “Live” soundcard. – or alternatively the output is muted, check with alsamixer.

michaa · July 17, 2020, 5:39pm

inxi -A

Audio: Device-1: Intel NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
Device-2: NVIDIA GK208 HDMI/DP Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
Device-3: Creative Labs EMU10k1 [Sound Blaster Live! Series] driver: snd_emu10k1

Yes, live being the used device is what I expect … except it does not work for playback.

live! is CreativeLabs soundblaster CT4620 (EMU10k1 to my knowledge is the midi part). This is my default card. I use it for all audio output (smplayer, VCL and so on). So I can’t see why ardour is incapable to find the output.

I cannot check with alsamixer as PA takes over. I use line-in for input with my pre-amplified mic and line-out for output over headphones. Nothing unusual.

The unusual oucome is: recording is working with ALSA soundserver, playback with PA !!!

EDIT:
When I speak into the mic while loop-playback the recording I hear what I speak, not what is recorded.
It seems the input is monitored even when I I try to playback.

Is there a way for switching off monitoring (or is there a bug? playback should shutdown monitoring)?

x42 · July 17, 2020, 6:54pm

The 3 you listed are cards, not devices.

From the alsa-device dump:

Card 0 (Intel):
  ...
Card 1 (NVidia):
  ...
Card 2 (Live):
  ...

The SB live has 3 devices and further sub-devices. I’ve never seen anything like it.

On the surface however it looks fine. Ardour uses the first device(s) of the “Live” soundcard each for recording and playback.

alsamixer (the commadline tool) is always available to directly control hardware settings
(pulseaudio uses ALSA under the hood anyway).

Can you run the adevices.sh script while pulse is using the soundcard for playback? That may provide a clue as to which device is used.

michaa · July 17, 2020, 7:03pm

Yes, it is available, but it is restrictet to Master and Capture

 ────────────────────────────── AlsaMixer v1.2.2 ──────────────────────────────┐
│   Gerät: PulseAudio                                F1:  Hilfe                │
│    Chip: PulseAudio                                F2:  System-Informationen │
│ Ansicht: F3: Wiedergabe  F4: Aufnahme  F5:[Alle]   F6:  Soundkarte auswählen │
│ Element: Capture                                   Esc: Beenden              │
│                                                                              │
│                                ┌──┐     ┌──┐                                 │
│                                │  │     │  │                                 │
│                                │  │     │  │                                 │
│                                │  │     │  │                                 │
│                                │  │     │  │                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │  │                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │  │                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │▒▒│                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │▒▒│                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │▒▒│                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │▒▒│                                 │
│                                ├──┤     └──┘                                 │
│                                │OO│                                          │
│                                └──┘    L    R                                │
│                                       AUFNAHME                               │
│                               63<>63   42<>42                                │
│                               Master <Capture >

 ────────────────────────────── AlsaMixer v1.2.2 ──────────────────────────────┐
│   Gerät: PulseAudio                                F1:  Hilfe                │
│    Chip: PulseAudio                                F2:  System-Informationen │
│ Ansicht: F3: Wiedergabe  F4: Aufnahme  F5:[Alle]   F6:  Soundkarte auswählen │
│ Element: Capture                                   Esc: Beenden              │
│                                                                              │
│                                ┌──┐     ┌──┐                                 │
│                                │  │     │  │                                 │
│                                │  │     │  │                                 │
│                                │  │     │  │                                 │
│                                │  │     │  │                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │  │                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │  │                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │▒▒│                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │▒▒│                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │▒▒│                                 │
│                                │▒▒│     │▒▒│                                 │
│                                ├──┤     └──┘                                 │
│                                │OO│                                          │
│                                └──┘    L    R                                │
│                                       AUFNAHME                               │
│                               63<>63   42<>42                                │
│                               Master <Capture > `

i try to run the script as you suggested.

EDIT:

playback with ALSA as soundserver:
Card 2 (Live):
* Playback Device 0 (ADC Capture/Standard PCM Playback):
- Subdevice 0 (hw:Live,0,0):
used by: ArdourGUI (PID 291782)
access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED
format: S16_LE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 48000 (48000/1)
period_size: 1024
buffer_size: 2048

and with PA:
Card 2 (Live):

Playback Device 0 (ADC Capture/Standard PCM Playback):
- Subdevice 0 (hw:Live,0,0):
  used by: pulseaudio (PID 2466)
  access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED
  format: S16_LE
  subformat: STD
  channels: 2
  rate: 48000 (48000/1)
  period_size: 16384
  buffer_size: 16384

Same device but different user, ArdourGui vs. PA

x42 · July 17, 2020, 7:11pm

Looks like you have not selected the “Live” card (press F6 Soundkarte auswählen)

PS.

for terminal, fixed-width text use tripple back-ticks ``` or select the text and click the button above the entry form.

PPS. I’ve edited your prior posts and added the backticks.

x42 · July 17, 2020, 7:21pm

Indeed. Odd that this does not work, then.

So when you play in Ardour, while using ALSA, does the master-bus meter show a signal?
Also is it connected?

michaa · July 17, 2020, 7:30pm

Thanks.

But did you see my edits (different user during playback)?

Yes, you were right, I could see all the different devices in alsamixer. But the naming is a nightmare. There is no line-in or line-out. There is only line. But there is nothing suspiciously muted.

michaa · July 17, 2020, 7:48pm

Yes, I see both chanels synchronously (as it should be when 1+2 is connected) in the master-bus meter. I hear the monitoring of what I speak into the mic, not the recording.
So somehow the monitoring isn’t switch off while playing back.

EDIT: I was wrong as far as the track meter is concerned. The track meter is in sync with the master-bus meter.
But I am still right regarding the audible output, it is the monitoring of the mic-input.

EDIT: During playback (ALSA active) Ardour does not appear in PAcontrol playback Tab (as all other programs using PA do). Somehow ardour does not connect to PA output.

peder · July 17, 2020, 8:49pm

PA sits on top of ALSA, so if you’re running Ardour through ALSA it won’t show up in PAcontrol

peder · July 17, 2020, 9:02pm

PA is playback only, due to something like timing reliability constraints, so it can’t be used for recording.

michaa · July 17, 2020, 9:21pm

Whatever solves my problem is ok. But I wonder why I can configure input/recording devices with PA if recording isn’t possible using PA? Or did you mean "… so it can’t be used for recording with ardour " ?
But again, whatever solves the playback problem …

peder · July 17, 2020, 9:37pm

Ardour can’t record through PA, according to Robin’s post here

My uneducated guess is that Pulse knows that your default output device should be your SB Live card but ALSA itself, for some reason, doesn’t.

I don’t exactly know how to tell ALSA to use a particular card but here are two links discussing the issue

https://www.alsa-project.org/wiki/Setting_the_default_device

paul · July 17, 2020, 10:04pm

Not quite.

Systems with PulseAudio installed tend to have the default ALSA PCM device set to be … PulseAudio. So most applications, which just open the default device, end up talking to the pseudo-device provided by PulseAudio.

PulseAudio has its own “internal configuration” that determines where it will send your audio, typically set up using pavucontrol or other PA-related tools.

As an example of just how differently systems can be set up: mine has a builtin audio interface, and a MOTU USB audio interface, and a webcam-based microphone. Pulse is not allowed to use either of the audio interfaces, and can only send audio to JACK, which uses the MOTU. But Pulse can use the webcam mic, which means that desktop apps can use it as a mic (e.g. Skype, browsers). This is happening because I set it up that way. By default, the situation would be quite different.

michaa · July 17, 2020, 10:45pm

Hello

first things first: Thank you for providing ardour! I knew the program for several years, installed it a few times, but found it rather difficult to understand (and it still is).

Today I tried it because (with this HW) I have other problems with all other recording tools, too. And as the recording with ardour was easy peasy I now really would like to get it working. I can’t give up because playback isn’t working.

So is it an ALSA problem? I am not good in solving things with try and error. I did create /etc/asound.conf, but it still does not give me audible playback.

defaults.pcm.card 2
defaults.ctl.card 2

Any suggestions?

paul · July 17, 2020, 10:48pm

My suggestion is that you join us on IRC where we can interact with you in realtime rather than delayed by the mechanics of a web forum. Link at the bottom left of this page.

Timing may or not be good for you - Robin and myself tend to be around mostly during “daytime” in the meridian-5-8 hr range (so sort of US East-West coast range).

michaa · July 17, 2020, 11:20pm

I do not understand this time info. If you mean 17:00 to 20:00 hours your time east coast, that would be more or less now (but not today) (I am 6 hours ahead here in Germany). If it’s West Cost, that would be rather unfortunate for me (me 8-9 hours ahead).

I’ll try one of the next days (evenings, early night) and we’ll see …

Thanks so far.