My first music with ARDOUR (a big thanks!)

Hi! That’s my first song all recorded, edited and mixed with Ardour. My big thanks to the developers of this amazing software!!
I’ve used Ubuntu Studio/KX Studio: Ardour, Gimp, Inkscape and Kdenlive to make the video clip.
(sorry my bad english)

Greetings from Brasil :wink:

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HI! Cool song, really! You are well in place and seems to have a great unity and complicity with your band.

Now for the recording…
Please don’t take what’s follow negatively, it’s just an friendly advice, a positive point of view about the technical details, because i really like your composition.

1°) What came first to my ears is the lack of room isolation, especially on the voice (it can be heard on the drums too). Personally, i don’t have a real studio, so i put (old) blankets everywhere (it could work with carpets too, but the big problem with them is the dust), the goal here is to completely annihilate the walls’ reflections which add unwanted resonances to the voice and the drums.

2°) To my ears, your voice is not enough integrated with the other instruments, it is a little too much ahead. Personally i think that the voice should be treated exactly as the other instruments, in other words i feel that songs can have much more impact / energy when the voice is completely integrated in the music.

3°) I think a simple, discrete hall reverb on your voice could do wonders. Or perhaps a (light) delay / echo? Or what about a spring reverb? I feel like it misses something like this, something that could really make the difference.

Of course this is a subjective advice, inspired by your song and by my personal tastes, anyway congratulations for your first recording with Ardour, I’m sure that you gonna do wonders with this great tool!

Last note: unfortunately i don’t understand the lyrics, but it seems important, i hope one day you will translate them on your site for tour foreign fans.

Greetings from France!

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Totally agree. But good demo anyway…

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Good work :slight_smile: The lack of reverb did not bother me at all, I kind of liked it that way. I also would have mixed the vocals maybe 1.5 - 2 dB’s quieter.

But hey, overall this is very good work, from composition to performance to recording and to mixing. Keep up the good work.

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I really, really thanks your comment and suggestions. I don’t have a treatment room and it’s will be my next improvement.
With respect to my voice: I sincerely don’t like it yet :slight_smile: I’m still searching the “tone”, the “punch” to fit my vocal in the “rock style”.
Again, thank you!

Thanks Mikael!
Yes, I’ll low down the vocals in the next song. :wink:

About your voice: please don’t search too much. From my (very modest, amateur) point of view, i always thought that a good voice is an “emotionally involved voice”.

What i mean by that? Sometimes, when i hear (very) famous singers on the radio, i feel like a lack of motivation or implication, like if the singer put a distance between her / him and the song (and by consequence, the audience), in other terms: she or he doesn’t really “play” the song, she or he doesn’t seems to really CARE about what the words and the notes are supposed to express.

Just listen to Patty Smith. Wether you like her (art) works or not, you can hear that she sings the only possible way: knowing that she could die tomorrow, or in five minutes, she puts everything in her voice. Her soul, her feelings, her mind, her life, absolutely everything. This is in my humble opinion the best, and only way, to sing.

You already have everything in you. You have the motivation, the emotion and the implication. I don’t understand your words but it’s like you have an important message to carry, and it’s great!

Just a last word about the sound and mixing: what i always liked about Iron Maiden, it’s their very, very smart and innovative way to mix their songs, i’d love to learn from the producers and engineers whom have worked with them, because from a technical point of view this is absolutely remarkable.

A thing to know in particular: they always demanded to sound in studio like if they were on stage. So everything depends on this: the way that the reverbs and delays are used, the way that the drums are mixed (very important, drums have a giant impact on their sound), the bass (of course), and, last but not least, the way that the voice is placed in the mix.

If ever you listen carefully, you will realize that the higher harmonics of the Bruce’s voice are very prominent, this adds a great impact to the screaming-like parts, which could literally pierce your ears… if they wasn’t so smartly adjusted and the frequencies (very) carefully chosen.

Other metal / rock singers prefer to put the accent on the lower frequencies to sound darker and add (a sort of) resonance, but the danger here is to lesser the intelligibility, which is, imho, a VERY important factor to take care of, in studio AND on stage. Even growlers have to take care of the intelligibility of the vocal message.

Of course everything i can say is limited because i’m (very) far from being a professional, my gear and my means are very limited, so take everything with salt, it’s just my two (euro-) cents.

(google translate… :blush: )
Meus melhores desejos para o futuro! :+1: :metal: :microphone:

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Thank you, sincerely thanks!
All your help is a motivation and a important feedback to my work. Because your attention, I decided to make a new video with lyrics (english)… I’ll warn you if you allow when it’s ready.
A grateful cheers!
PS.: Do you have a band/work with music?

Cool! Can’t wait to see your new video! :sunglasses:

What could be cool also: a great live video on stage, like for example at a rock festival, to have the opportunity to enjoy a great sound / mixing… and audience!

i don’t know if you plan to, or already have, festival-like kind of opportunities / venues, but i feel it could be important to make a live video with the sound taken directly from the mix console, so that people can realize what you are and feel your talent and your potential.

Imho, it could also be the opportunity to think about your performance as a real show, for example it could include acting, or costumes, or make-up, or special lighting, or video, or… anything your imagination can elaborate! Here, surprise is the key. Audience must feel like they hear and watch something special, unique, or just slightly different from the usual.

(P.S. I don’t have a band, for the moment i concentrate on creation, composition (nothing ready yet), tho from time to time i work for friends, if you’re curious you could find a link in my profile, but don’t bother, a funny fact is that the last two songs were recorded with a… hem… Sound Blaster cheap pci card on a very old (and buggy, and noizy) win7 PC! :wc: :wastebasket: :floppy_disk: :moyai: )

If ever you have have a minute, keep me in touch with your projects, just drop me a line or two if you have events / releases / projects that you wanna share! Keep on rockin’! :guitar: :rocket: :v:

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Hi!!
Help me to understand: your work is “Tiffeine” !? :open_mouth::smiley: That’s a professional work!! AMAZING!

Well, about my modest work :slight_smile: - I’m mixing the last recorded song. It’s a live session and soon I’ll share too - with English subtitles :wink:
About festivals… That’s the difficult part of living in a small town… No place to show your authorial music. Just cover bands are “welcome”… But, we are making our way.

UOU!! Listen now to “Billion Names” COOL!!
PS.: I hope you can understand my poor English.

In fact, what you heard is also (mostly?) the hard work of Lionel Guiochon, a genius arranger-pianist-guitarist-engineer-drummer who transformed my modest compositions + the sincere words of the singer into something… can i say “more”?

The only songs which are realized, played and mixed 100% by me are the 2 last ones… :roll_eyes:

Nor Tiffeine, nor I have ever earned any money with this project (juste spend… some would say… waste? :grinning:). This is a friendship (and fun) story above all. That’s why i put this link in my profile.

I’m happy that you appreciate “Billion Names”, ‘cause that’s the only song that is very close to my personal style of comp’. All the rest is really the style of the singer. I always thought that a composer have to forget her/his own ego and adapt everything with the personality and style of the singer / lyrics writer. So as a result, it’s really a 100% Tiffeine “album”, not mine.

But back to you! Even if you have to travel a lot to enjoy real great opportunities, i can say it’s worth it!

The only concerts that i’m proud of were made in (little) festivals, because the people there, were there exactly to hear groups not so far from our style, the audience were motivated, and so were we. We given the maximum, and the audience response was amazing. That’s what i call “Real” concerts.

In France we have a great Metal festival called the Hellfest. THAT is the kind of place for you to be, i think you’d be more than welcome here, because the people which come here are real Metal and Rock fans.

You know many groups don’t survive long time enough because they work hard… but for what result?

When you face an audience that’s really motivated by what you have to say and to play, everything makes sense. You know exactly why you’re here, and the time and efforts (…and money! and relationship! :pensive: ) you have sacrificed to your passion suddenly find… a reason, a justification.

So find Rock festivals in your country (or anywhere else), ask to play there (send your best demos and plead for your life), take your gear, jump in your (or someone else’s) car… and drive! I couldn’t say more.

Can’t wait to see and hear your new live session video! Have a great day!

(P.S.: Don’t worry about your english, mine is poor too, i just babble as i can… with the help of french-english dictionaries :relaxed: )

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My estimated Silent Joe:
Your words, tips, suggestions and incentive are so motivating… Thanks for all!
I really liked Tiffeine and “Billion Names”! And still want to hear your work… Could you post a link directing to it, please :wink:
Well, we (band) are in process of learning/studying the repertory. I have nine songs written between 2016/2017 and I’m “teaching” them… Meanwhile I’m composing more songs to add too. I’m “professional” of music cause my livelihood is all provided by MUSIC (ye, it’s in a small town of Brasil is a little “unusual”) and the other guys are trying their way (not even with music itself). That’s why, to play in other bigger cities and festivals is not a “reality” for us (for a while…).
When you mentioned HELLFEST - ouo :open_mouth: - that’s a distant dream :slight_smile: But, I’m totally flattered (in a modest way) if you bealive we fit in! I know that friends wishes the best, but we need to grown up a “little” to deserve the honour to play there.
But, YES, I dying to take the “road” and play in every corner we could. I hope it’s will be soon :wink:
Again… Very, very thanks for your feedback!!

(PS.: the new video was posted on youtube - “Apenas Degraus” Manifesto Roq)

Have a great day!

Estimated Ric Sensever, it’s really great to discover your new video! :sunglasses:

What i liked the most, technically speaking: the drums! They sound really better, exactly like (imho) they should considering your style, this is IMHO a proof that even without $1000$ of rig you can have a respectable drum sound.

I think you start to master Ardour more! I heard you manage to tame the resonances of the room, i dunno how you did that but it’s great to hear!

The pans on the guitars (one left, the other on the right) are very nice! That is a very simple effect, but it do wonders on a song like that, where the guitar parts are really different.

The voice is perfectly placed on the mix (in fact you even have a slight margin! And that’s great, because i think some songs will require you to rise it up just a very little) i still miss that there’s no FX (no reverb, no delay) on your voice (but of course it’s a personal taste), what can i say? I like this song! :sunglasses:

What I like is that you are very focused on melodies and on the words, and i think that’s a very important aspect of your style, it creates a melancholic and profound ambience. That, IMHO, is your signature, and that’s what i appreciate the most, and i firmly believe in your potential because of that.

Just a very small detail though: the youtube translation in English doesn’t seem to work, but don’t bother! You must have many much important aspects to take care of, i understand, not a problem at all.

Concerning Hellfest, perhaps you don’t know that but they have different types of stages, depending of the “size” the groups: in other words: they have small scenes for small (not well-known, or local) groups, the big stages of course are reserved for the “big heads”.

What is great is that the crowd can freely navigate from stand to stand, from scene to scene, to discover new artists and new groups, even if they are not pros, it’s not rare that people even prefer to stop at a “small” stand listening to a “small” band than running watch the “big ones” on the big stages!

What i mean also it’s that people that runs this kind of festival are generally cool and open enough to welcome you even if you are a starting band, it “suffices” that your demo please them… (they can even decide to put you on a larger and well-exposed stage, if they believe in you) It’s why having a great demo is so important!

Why i think festivals could be great opportunities? Because producers, medias and labels go there too, of course! So even if you play on a small stage, lost somewhere among dozens of other stands or centers of attraction, it worth it, because of the people you can meet.

That’s the place to be opportunist, you have to not hesitate a second to talk about your band if you see someone that can be important for your future and to give your demos (with your contact number / email prominently, legibly, indelibly printed / written on them! :nerd_face:)… It could be (cheap) usb keys for example, but sometimes a simple visit card with the url / flashcode of your Youtube / Bandcamp / Reverb or Soundcloud wall can do wonders.

Of course i know it isn’t natural for a lot of people to be opportunist and to “sell” yourself, personally i’m mostly a shy and reserved person (except on forums, i don’t know why… :blush:) so the only solution when you are like that… is to act, yes like if you are an actor and you’d have to convince someone that you’re an artist to consider seriously.

The best solution of course could be to have someone (a manager?) with you who knows how to communicate easily, naturally with “the pros of the profession” (as we say here). :stuck_out_tongue:

One think to consider also: there’s often non-profit organizations which organize concerts and tours, some paid (that could be the case of cultural / artistic associations for example) and some not (charity, humanitarian…). Those organizations are also present in festivals, because that’s for them an opportunity to reach a lot of people that don’t usually pay attention to them. It could be a way for you to touch a bigger audience.

One last word: i know that (at least in France) there are some commercial entities that promote artists, but only on stage. They work in fact like a sort of “label”, i.e. they select groups and artists and if they think there’s potential, they organize tours all around the country. You could say that they are “live-only” labels, because they don’t do any record, just concerts. That could be interesting too, don’t you think?

To answer your question about my work: unfortunately, i have nothing else than the Tiffeine webpage for you to hear. Last year i lost (stupidly) a 4 To hard disk with a lot of songs and collaborations in it… but after a little moment i decided that it’s not important, that’s just the opportunity to create new things, build new imaginary worlds, to forget about the past, and to think more about music creation and what it means to me.

But the second i have something decent to share, you can be assured that i will send you a pm with an address in it!

:sunglasses: :metal: Keep on Rockin’, never stop Rollin’! :guitar: :rocket:

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SilentJoe, you are great! :slight_smile:

You notice that i adapted the room for the record… My solution: I’ve open the door and put more “stuff”, all kind of stuff against the walls that could decrease reflections and resonance. Me and the other guitarist, also the bass player, played in the next room with a “low intense volume” to avoid the “bleed” between instruments and voice.
You notice too that i take down the vocals :wink: It’s really make a good difference! Thanks!
Well, I put a “strange” delay on vocals but it’s not a thing I feel secure to do… Maybe I f*** with the fx :smiley:
Really thanks for yours words of incentive about all!!

About English translation: I’m talking to a English teacher to translate correctly (a friend of my wife)… Soon it will be fix. I’ll warn you :wink:

About Hellfest and all your welcome advices: what can I say… THANKS! If it could be possible will be a pleasure to communicate my friend Silent Joe - We are going!!!
For now, we gonna record the others 7 songs and play in the “neighborhood”. But, if we have a chance, France will be our next step! :smiley: And Hellfest too, of course :wink:

Ps.: I put the band in the reverbnation… I don’t know if it’s a good thing, but… Nothing to lose.

Have great day!!

Hey music bro! :slightly_smiling_face:

I’m happy to know that one day (when you want, no rush!) i will have a translation of your words. (Perhaps one day in French too? I could help with that)

About the FX: one day, if you feel adventurous, try to add a discrete - just a little - “spring reverb” and/or a “tape delay” on your voice (the combination of both could be great). Well adjusted, these two kind of plugins could do wonders! They’re both very retro, but they can add something special, a sort of dimension to your voice.

(last minute intuition: at the first place in the FX chain, try to put a vintage/valve compressor / preamp. So the chain could look like this: Valve->T.Delay->S.Reverb)

And then, if you want, with the other musicians, compare the results to the dry sound. (You’ll certainly have to adjust finely the volume fader, and perhaps to slightly rise up the trebles (choose a frequency from 4 to 7Khz, depending of your voice… or use an harmonics enhancer!) …What are your impressions?

If ever you really don’t have time, or are not sure about that, you could try to put your dry voice track on a souncloud account (they accept *.wav format), and i could try different things for you? If it not pleases you, that’s absolutely not a problem, it’s just examples of the kind of things you could try, i’m NOT trying to impose my point of view in any way!

You’re doing right to open an account on Reverbnation, i found great people here, musicians or not, that have taken the time to drop a comment or two, and of course i’ve done the same on their page.

Comments, critics and “likes” were very important for us at a moment (it was in 2008… i think?) because we thought that it could attract the attention of a producer… But alas, despite a lot of positive comments, no real opportunity or professional contact have emerged, perhaps mainly because the vast majority of the people which goes there is English-speaking, the site itself is very North-American-centric, so…

What i found really interesting too: Bandcamp. I think you should also open a page there, there’s a lot of fine musicians from all over the world. I dunno why in fact, but my intuition says to me that you could have interesting openings and contacts there.

And Soundcloud also, because it’s easy to insert a piece of music in a message (in forums or in mails for example), and because there’s also a great load of creative people there,.

I have no interest in these sites, i just write my impressions related to your music exactly as they come.

Hey, I just have an idea about Ardour: could it be possible to send music to Souncloud, directly from Ardour? It could be a great function, because we live in a connected world. Though it’s not always obvious and easy for guys like me.

I realize that my comments are pretty long and goes in multiple directions, sorry for all those are reading this (if you want we could in the future use PM instead? EDIT: I dunno if we can send PMs here? I don’t see the function. Is it possible? Perhaps i will have to use other sites?)…

In fact all i wanted to write or say publicly is this: believe in you (exactly as i believe in you), be strong, make no compromises, and everything will (I’m certain about that) go very well!! :+1: :metal: :sunglasses:

(last minute: if ever you want, i can send you my email address on your Reverbnation account? (my message will be signed “Tiffeine”, but it’ll be really from me, i share the account with the singer) because PMs really don’t work here! :face_with_head_bandage: )

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PMs are disabled sorry.

FYI There was an export to soundcloud functionality, can’t remember if it was in Mixbus or Ardour, or both, but it did exist, but the problem was that on API changes it broke things and there just wasn’t enough manpower to keep it up to date easily. Not sure what the current status is honestly.

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Thanks for your answer, Seablade, i understand the problem with this kind of big sites like souncloud, which evolves continuously, same with Reverb or FB or other sites like this, it demands a lot of time to follow!

No problem though, i will continue to play with Ardour, Soundcloud or not! :sunglasses: