Is it possible to copy and paste a chanel configuration (ie. all the sends)?

(Leo Preston) #1

Hi,
I’ve made 24 beautiful sends on the forst track in my session, and now I would like to have the same number on all my other tracks. Is it possible to copy and paste these sends to the next tracks?
Thanks!

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(Robin Gareus) #3

I was going to suggest track-templates, but with external-sends there are a couple of issues :frowning:

24 external sends from multiple tracks? May I ask what you’re trying to achieve? because there may be better options.

Perhaps use 24 busses, connected them directly to outputs (once) and then use aux-sends to only send to those busses as-needed. – Or do you want/need “matrix mixer” N -> M?

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(Robin Gareus) #4

Actually you can select all sends on the source track and copy/paste them to another track.

Easiest click on the top-most, shift+click on the bottom-most send, then drag-drop to the target channel and they’re copied.

Still, 48 or even more external sends are expensive. If they all feed the same targets, Busses are preferable.

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(Leo Preston) #5

Hi Robin,
These are interesting questions, and I thought the best way to answer you might be to make a video - so I’ve done that, and I’ll try and link it to this message…
Basically I am only using 24 outputs in total, with 24 sends (buses) assigned to the same 24 outputs on each track. This is for multi-channel panning within a large installation.
This brings me to another question, which is to do with MIDI binding maps (for controling all these sends with a 24 sensors as a MIDI controler). I’ve made a midi bindings file, and I THINK my son put it in the right “user configuration directory” (which in the reference manual is $HOME/Library/Preferences/Ardour*/for OSX) using “Terminal”. Unfortunately I can’t find the template in Ardour, and in fact the “Ardour 5” folder is invisible… I wander if you have any helpeful advice here?https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7oc0n2e8wwdvr6/Ardour%20Help%2024%20Chanel.mp4?dl=0

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(Robin Gareus) #6

Wow, that looks like a nice installation!

Ok, where to start…

First of all, all those sends need a lot (!) of processing power. At 3 min into the video you see DSP: 100% in red in the status-bar at the bottom. So your system is fully loaded and you’ll get audio dropouts. At 2:40 in your video in the Audio/MIDI setup dialog pick a larger buffersize. 64 samples is rather small. Since you’re only mixing prefer 1024. That should lower the load significantly.

Anyway, for a setup like this I’d not use individual sends, but a single matrix-mixer plugin. That provides a single point to control the panning.
I have just compiled two variants of https://github.com/x42/matrixmixer.lv2#screenshots for Mac:

Download both and install (using the installer app, then re-start Ardour to pick them up)

Create a session and pick “Advanced” as template, create a session without a master-bus (pick “0” as master-bus channels). That way all Audio tracks will remain mono and won’t have a panner by themselves.
You may want to also disable auto-connect.

Next create a 24 channel bus. That will act as “master”. We will use that to route the sources to the 24 target speakers. Easiest way to do this is to create use the preset of 12 channel bus and then add 12 more manually using the I/O connector > context menu > Add Audio Input.

Next important step is to disable the VBAP panner on that bus, that way all channels are passed through 1:1.

Now we can add the 24x24 matrix-mixer plugin to that bus. Note that it’s filed under “Utils” (you have to check that button, blue outline)

Last but not least, add 24 audio tracks which will provide the source material and connect their outputs to the bus’ input. You can simply draw a diagonal line in Menu > Window >Audio Connections to do that in one go.


A video to show this all in action: http://robin.linuxaudio.org/tmp/route-24x24.mp4
and for good measure the resulting ardour-session: https://x42-plugins.com/tmp/route-24x24.zip

… to be continued…

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(Robin Gareus) #7

Next you want to control this 24x24 Mixer-Matrix…

One way would be to use MIDI-learn and assign those 576 controls… – sadly Ardour 5.12 does not allow to use a bindings-map to directly control plugin-params (upcoming Ardour 6 will, but that’s no use).
Short of manually doing midi-learn that could be done by manually editing the .ardour session file. but let’s get back to that later.

A much better option would be to not using MIDI but OSC! Is that an option?

You controller would just send open-sound-control packets over the network, could even be WIFI.


An example: http://robin.linuxaudio.org/tmp/osc_paramater_control_example.mp4

Preferences > Control Surfaces > OSC. Lookup the hostname or IP there. Then pick “Selected Track” from “Default strip types” (this is needed to work-around a bug in Ardour 5.12. otherwise OSC crashes if there is no “master” bus – high time we get Ardour 6 out of the door.) Select the bus… and it’s go time:

On a GNU/Linux system you can use oscsend from liblo-tools, to manually send OSC. There are similar options or apps for MacOS, too.

oscsend osc.udp://localhost:3819 /strip/plugin/parameter iiif 1 1 2 0.5

The parameters are 3 integers, 1 float: <strip> <plugin-number> <parameter> <value>

Above example uses 1st selected strip (the bus), 1st plugin (the matrix mixer), 2nd parameter (in1 -> out 2), gain: 0.5 (about -6dB)

An added benefit is that you can control pretty much any aspect of Ardour remotely. You can also control the transport, seek to different pieces…

PS. if OSC is an option, creating a session with a mono master-bus, but not using it, can simplify this (you don’t need the work-around to use a selected bus).

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(Leo Preston) #8

Wow Robin!
I’m so glad I sent you that video, and thanks SOOO much for this very helpeful and thorough response!
I’m going to look into all of this, whilst multitasking quite a lot, and I’ll keep you informed. Sounds like very promising solutions you are suggesting!

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(Leo Preston) #9

Hi again,

So I’m trying to implement your recomended setup, but I can’t find the plugins in the Plugin Manager.
I installed them “system wide” and it looked as though the installation was successful.
Here’s another very short video…
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dspf9c58iisqzh3/Ardour%20Help_Matrix%20plugin.mov?dl=0

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(Robin Gareus) #10

Did you restart Ardour after installing the plugin?

Other than that, run in the installer again – it should ask to uninstall or re-install it, perhaps try to install it for your current user only. It should end up in $HOME/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/LV2/*.lv2

quit + reopen Ardour after that

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(Robin Gareus) #11

Which version of MacOS are you using?
It seems that the installer fails on recent Mojave :frowning:

Edit: Could you try to manually drag/drop the. matrix-mixer-i24o24.lv2 plugin folder to $HOME/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/LV2/ (after creating that dir)?

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(Leo Preston) #12

Yes, Unfortunately I’m running Mojave (OSX 10.14) which is a very shit operating system, but I bought this Apple laptop to provide support to composers that were running a similar setup. I have already tried the drag-and-drop proceedure, and unfortunately it doesn’t seem to work!
This reminds me about the problem with my MIDI bindings map that doesn’t show up either (even though we believe it is in the right place).

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(Leo Preston) #13

PROBLEM RESOLVED!
OK Robin, I moved the files yesterday without the folder. But now I read your discription, and put the whole folder in the LV2 directory - so now I can find the mixers in Ardour! Beautiful! Thanks!

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(Robin Gareus) #14

Cool. DSP load should be significantly lower with a single plugin (compared to all the separate sends)…

Now… Is OSC an option to remote control the plugin, or does your interface only speak MIDI?

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(Leo Preston) #15

Just looking at that now… Seems like OSC can be an option.
I am rather curious about how best to use my 24 sensors when there are 576 knobs on the plugin. I guess I’ll need to incorporate some kind of “bank selector switch”?
Also I have extremely minimal programing experience, and will have to get some help with that side of it, but I can try to work out the basic principles first.

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(Leo Preston) #16

Simplest for me (and my CPU board) to send OSC over serial conection.

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