🔥 Facts about midi editing in Ardour

Have you heard about a sea with a width of a thousand kilometers but a depth of one centimeter?
It’s similar midi editing in ardour

Producer :grinning: : i have ton of notes in piano roll & i need a FAST option for adjust velocity
Developers :sunglasses: : we give you 3 option

  • ctrl up&down in selected note/s one by one or use mouse wheel
  • midi list editor
  • or a math machine
    image
    if you cant use it go to buy a math book and read it
    when you achieve Einstein level of math
    and coding level of Ardour developer then you can adjust note velocity with it

Producer :rage: Not now but always
You should watch Ardour from producer eyes not developer
Time is gold maybe better than gold for all people not just producer
but your options is time eater and mind f*****
you know man after spend hours / days for adjust velocity with this options you don’t achieve
good balance good humanize
Similar to the others DAWs
that use velocity line / line for adjust velocity of notes

image

i know this war between producer and developer go back to 2013 and past of it in Middle centuries
https://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=5608

but After 10 year in 2023
I say you ardour velocity adjustment methods/option not useful not fast
Some time it make problem Instead Help
At this moment in history Ardour have 2 way
1- Follow other DAWs in this concept (add line for adjust velocity)
OR
2- Like Dictators…(You f*cking opinion Doesn’t matter)


@paul :point_up_2:1 or 2 ???


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i know
i know nothing

I don’t like the way the topic has been addressed here at all. It’s probably counterproductive, too.

However, as far as I know we’ve never been this close that Ardour gets velocity lollipop editing. Unfortunately, I can’t find the news item about this in the Libre Arts weekly recaps (https://librearts.org/) anymore.

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A great tutorial about how to NOT get exactly what you want… :roll_eyes:

This issue/request has been asked for (nicely) for years, they’re working on doing it in a way that also addresses velocities in chords. I do not agree with how the question has been posed but I do agree that even having this feature available in a functional way comparable to other DAWs while work is being done on improving it would have been a huge benefit for MIDI workflows.

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For chord just shift click on pino roll keys
for select notes in selected key line
then adjust

@hankel Hi,
you’re comparing apples to oranges here :

  • if what you want to achieve is a global modification of all the velocities, as you said yourself, it’s easy to select all or a part of the notes and change the velocity
  • if what you want is local modification, different for each marker, then doing it via lollipop or the current Ardour way is no different : select a marker and move it individually.
    You specifically pointed the “Einstein level” MIDI transform tool. That made me smile, I confess, but the very screenshot you showed is for a mass treatment of all the velocities in the region at once and allows a very controlled randomization of the 1000’s points in 1 sec. Quite better IMHO than clicking those 1000 points and adjusting velocity individually. Maybe not everyone can use this tool, but it is powerful, and it’s just one tiny use of it.

Anyway, I don’t say that Ardour’s handling of MIDI is perfect, and no one told so, but the devs are trying to invent a “better way”, at one point using automation lanes were considered IIRC but the problem was with chords (i.e. multiple notes at the same point in time, how to visually tell apart one from the other, the blue vs green in your other screenshot). It’s not Ardour’s dev being snobbish, it’s about doing things with added benefits, like being able to automate those velocities or use them as parameters for plugins etc… instead of just copying ProTools/Cubase/Whatever else. No judgment here, those are brilliant softwares, but we expect more of Ardour, more flexibility, more freedom to do odd things and so on.

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TLDR : Trash talking is a repellent for any idea, while finding and proposing clever ideas would help the community.

like Reinventing the wheel
We are not the first humans
We should use the successful experiences of others

Very true, but if everyone thought like that, no invention would be possible. Watching a wooden wheel and thinking “maybe we could put rubber on it so that it’s more comfortable” is better.

then in year 3023
we Reinventing velocity lollipop editing.
And we are just getting to where the rest are today

Use experiences
instead of repeating them

An stable idea is better than ton of beta

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You can also select one or more notes and press v

Maybe a slider in the midi list to control the velocity would help. Selecting a note in the editor could also select in the midi list (and visa versa for visual feedback). Then when more than one note is selected, the sliders would move at the same time. I don’t really like velocity lanes and lollipops, it becomes a lot of visual clutter when it becomes busy and overlapping.

the one thing that velocity lanes are good for is creating crescendo and diminuendos across time. This doesn’t involve lollipops per se - they just function as a display element. It instead involves using pointer cursor movement (“mouse drag”) to define a shape for the velocity information over time.

one of the things i hope to do in our implementation is to make it possible to do this across multiple tracks simultaneously, so that if you are working with orchestral synthesis, you can get N tracks to follow the same curve in a single step.

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Please don’t tell me one=‘only’ :wink:

Otherwise you probably haven’t done a whole lot of drum programming… 100% agree crescendo/diminuendo are a popular use case but programming subtle velocity changes in drumhits quickly and visually is something I feel has been very overlooked as you can see in my several years old Mantis posts about this… I get you want to do it ‘better’ but many years of not even doing it like the status quo have gone by…

I love this product and admire (and trust) your ingenuity but it’s the first glaringly missing feature as soon as you bang open a MIDI track, I don’t know how much longer you want to hold out on this… :man_shrugging:

My point is that we already have “lollipops”, except that they are (a) horizontal (b) inside notes. You can do “subtle velocity changes” there; what you can’t do are “shapes” in any reasonably easy way.

The “lollis” branch already exists (though is currently quiescent).

OK,

  • Your horizontal lollipops don’t appear in percussive mode
  • You have to select a note to modify the horizontal lollipop
  • In other contemporary products merely dragging/drawing the mouse across the lollipop is all that is required to modify regardless of note appearance mode, that subtle difference is hugely workflow significant.

Not going to disagree

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Hey man we know what is lollipops and how to use it
don’t repeat it usage and never underestimate it
Why are you resisting adding this option?
this option is better than entire cue page and other useless options
like bundle manager / midi list editor and in above Einstein math machin and …
you know man we need a common way and it is a common and fast and easy way for change velocity of notes

A bad excuse is better than none
what is this man
we say you add lollipops to one track You resist it
and you talk about multiple tracks editing
keep it for yourself

We need one track just one track velocity editing with lollipops and talk about it
but you change the topic
Accept the issue instead of changing the discussion

You’re doing a very good job of convincing me to NEVER work on this feature. I’d suggest that you stop.

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