Here is a recording I made recently in Ardour of a live performance of Bruckner’s Fifth Symphony. Well, the 3rd movement at least:
The main AB pair are Oktava MK-012 with omni capsules about 0.5m apart above and just in front of the conductor. For the first time I also tried a pair of “outrigger” microphones on the far left and right at the front pointing in to the strings (AKG P170s). Then a pair of P170s in “Gerzon” configuration on the winds which also picked up a bit the horns and brass on either side. Then spot mics on timps and in front of the brass (Sontronics STC-1 cardioids) and one behind the horns (Behringer B5 cardioid).
All of those in to Zoom L20 and then in to Ardour. There’s some EQ to take the low end out of the timp and horns spots and also to gently lift the very top end of the Oktavas.
Then following feedback from Robin, used the x42 IR Convolver plugin with this IR:
to add reverb to what was a bit too dry otherwise. Pretty happy with how it came out. I realise Bruckner may not be many peoples thing but it definitely grows on you over time
Interesting article about this “Gerzon” mic configuration:
This is all coming from a guy who knows diddley squat about classical music and/or recording techniques for the genre but this sounds GREAT! Well done! such phenomenal dynamic range and the impulse sounds quite natural! Very impressed with the definition of things like the Timpani, cool!
Glad to hear you use a Zoom L20 with successfully Ardour, after a lot of research I just bought one and have yet to try it on a full sized project…
Very nice recording! The strings sound so soft and mellow, and the balance with the woodwinds is spot on. Horns and brass seem little dominant in the ff parts, but, hey, it is Bruckner. I don’t get it why it has become the standard to record a symphony orchestra with 40+ channels. I am an orchestral musician and believe me, we spend most of the time on the rehearsals seeking the right dynamic balance (as in “the culture of listening to my colleagues”) , and I think mixing in the postproduction makes more harm than good… So I really appreciate your recording and I truly enjoyed listening to it. Thanks for sharing!
So I agree about the current trend. I’ve noticed that a lot of recordings now are made with a lot of microphones and the balance is all done afterwards. I think this partly stems from so many releases being produced from live concerts now rather than dedicated sessions, and so they close mic everything in order to keep all the random coughing and noise from the audience out. Some of them are fantastically clear and sharp but a bit clinical sounding sometimes. There is something to be said for the energy you get from a real live performance over a studio session.
Also I think, because of the way film soundtracks have beeen recorded, people’s taste has changed to that more “cinematic” sound and so the industry has changed. There are a few holdouts that only put up 2 microphones “in the perfect position” and leave it to the musicians but I certainly don’t have the time to find that perfect spot.
But I’m doing this for my own enjoyment and experience and only have an hour or so on either side of the concert to setup and put it all away again so I have to be fairly minimalist. When mixing I like to get the main pair of microphones sounding good and then just bring up the wind microphones and any spots just enough to bring them in to balance with a bit of detail and then leave it there for the whole mix, I almost never do any fader riding. So it’s up to the band at that point to make the balance work
The brass really do like to go for it! I could try and dial them back down a bit but then I did think for Bruckner it was probably about right as you say
This is the first recording I’ve made with the Oktava microphones as the main pair and I have to say they are really good, I think I’ll keep them
So its one of the better amateur orchestras in London that I play with regularly. This time I wasn’t playing though and I could really concentrate on the recording. They are pretty good!
I do think it’s a shame that these recordings get sanitized this way. I actually like hearing audience coughs, inadvertent taps of the conductor’s baton on the music stand, etc.; it’s part of the live experience and I think editing out these environmental noises takes something away from the recording (unless they are really distracting). Years ago I had a musician friend in Boston whose job was to go through classical music recordings and remove all those extraneous sounds, with the result that she could no longer enjoy live concerts because all she could focus on was those sounds that she had trained her ear to hear, not the music.
I also agree that it’s the conductor’s job (and the orchestra’s) to establish the mix and dynamic range, not the engineer’s. If you’re going to close-mic everything I think at least the conductor should be present at the mixing stage.
Anyway, I’ll add my praise to these recordings and it’s also a good demonstration that you don’t need top-of-the-line expensive mics, preamps, and converters to produce a good result.
This is not good. When I stopped playing professionally, it took a few years before I could go and listen to a concert and not spend the whole time counting bars in my head and getting distracted by out-of-time sections or intonation and worry, even though I didn’t have to play. And then resisting the urge to stand up when the conductor came back on at the end
I also agree that it’s the conductor’s job (and the orchestra’s) to establish the mix and dynamic range, not the engineer’s. If you’re going to close-mic everything I think at least the conductor should be present at the mixing stage.
Apparently, Herbert von Karajan imposed himself on all the mixing sessions of all of his recordings once they started going multi-track. That could go either way to be honest, by all accounts he was a total control freak.
Anyway, I’ll add my praise to these recordings and it’s also a good demonstration that you don’t need top-of-the-line expensive mics, preamps, and converters to produce a good result.
Thank you for the praise I like to think that it’s all about putting the mics in the right place with good enough transparent preamps and converters and mixing it well. But I can’t help wondering what it might sound like if I had some Schoeps MK 2S and fancy preamps to play with… I don’t know that the actual “music” would come across much better but perhaps there would be some additional magic qualities to the sound…? Maybe one day
