Ardour Modes Idea ('Beginner', 'Normal', 'Expert', etc.)

[GhostsonAcid]

Continuing from this thread…

If the preferences pane is getting ‘too’ big and difficult to navigate, you might consider grouping different preference ‘modes’ sometime down the road…

In Prusa Slicer, for example (-a slicer program for 3D-printing), they increasingly reveal different options to the user based on the mode they’ve chosen to use, thus:

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And so they have their “Beginner Mode”:

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→ “Normal Mode”:

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→ and “Expert Mode”:

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This might help to not overburden/bewilder the ‘average’, ‘normal’ user with superfluous, esoteric options and settings.

-Just plantin’ seeds.
(…that’ll probably never grow… )

-J

[DHealey]

How do you decide what a beginner is? With a 3D printer it’s pretty clear, but there are many different use cases for a DAW. Are you a beginner at MIDI, tracking, audio editing, mixing…

Just give me all the options with clear categorisation and tooltips so I know what they do.

[GhostsonAcid]

@DHealey

How do you decide what a beginner is?

This is almost literally irrelevant, hence the modes you can switch between.
There’s no right or wrong answer.

→ It’s not like some settings wouldn’t exist.
→ They’d just be visually hidden based on the ‘mode’.

@DHealey

With a 3D printer it’s pretty clear, but there are many different use cases for a DAW.

-Just like there are many different use-cases with 3D-printing. So no, it’s not at all “clear” for 3D-printing. The designers simply arbitrarily chose what to include in each ‘mode’ based on their personal preferences, logic, and reasoning. And as the user becomes more and more comfortable with the application, and one day finds themselves looking for a setting they seemingly cannot find, at some point they simply switch modes to see what’s available.

And yes, this works very well in programs like Prusa Slicer, because there is a reason they implemented it: to not overburden beginners and average users alike.

In your case (and mine), you would simply leave it on “Expert” mode and all settings would be shown, all of the time. -Easy. -Simple.

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Here’s an example I made in 30sec:

Again, there’s no “right” or “wrong” here.

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Hence, you could effectively go ‘hog wild’ with @paul’s approach #2 here:

2. "People have different needs and wants, and we should let them adjust things to their needs and wants as much as we possibly can”

→ Yet lead the way via grouping settings in ‘modes’ to acheive #1:

1. “We know best, and the user should learn to use the incredibly fabuluous UI/UX that we’ve designed for them”

-Best of both worlds.

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It is in fact the case that the Preferences pane in Ardour has grown substantially over the years (which is a good thing, ultimately), but for a newbie this can be completely overwhelming and deterring…

But I suppose none of this text matters, because I’m 99% certain this will never happen in Ardour.

Again, it’s only an idea. And I know when the devs are juggling with 180,000 lines of code (or whatever it all is now) some ideas are just not worth the effort. (-Or are just plain stupid for reasons I haven’t considered yet.)

Thanks for reading.

-J

[DHealey]

@GhostsonAcid

This is almost literally irrelevant,

I’ll reword it. How do you decide which settings go in the Beginner mode?

[BenLoftis (Ben)]

@GhostsonAcid : I agree 100% with the sentiment but maybe not the implementation. In my opinion, people should not be spending much time, at all, in the preferences window. We aren’t Reaper.

@DHealey : Riffing on your idea, I imagine a menu similar to the one shown, but it has entries like:
Timecode
Scripting
Advanced Mixing (VCAs, ???)
Advanced MIDI (internal edit?)
Controllers (?)
…etc

Perhaps you can’t see any timecode sync buttons, tc rulers, timecode prefs, or clock modes pertaining to SMPTE timecode until you check the Timecode item. The vast majority of people don’t need to know about timecode (they might still care about Hours/Mins/Seconds which would always be available of course). Perhaps once a session is saved with this preference ‘on’, it can no longer be turned off for that session.

Timecode and scripting are easy IMO. After that it gets tricky.

[paul (Paul Davis)]

As Ben Loftis liked to say, "every DAW user only needs 20 features. But try to find two DAW users who need the same 20 features … "

[GhostsonAcid]

@DHealey

I’ll reword it. How do you decide which settings go in the Beginner mode?

…
My answer:

Whatever Paul Davis and Robin Gareus decide to put into a Beginner mode.

-Based on their intimate knowledge of the DAW, and their own logic and reasoning. I mean, they’re already doing this: → they’re called the default settings. Some dev at some point decided to make such-and-such setting default a certain way. This would be essentially no different.

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@paul

As Ben Loftis liked to say, "every DAW user only needs 20 features. But try to find two DAW users who need the same 20 features … "

Yes, and that’s a very good point, but if someone has a problem with a “Normal” mode lacking something, the solution would literally be like 1-2 clicks away… → Expert mode.

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But none of that is the issue here, imo.

The problem is that these ‘modes’ would have to apply across the entire DAW. o___o → Another nail in the coffin for this ‘Idea for Ardour’, because good luck getting a couple of new Lua bindings let alone an entire re-working of every aspect of the DAW… haha : /

But… hypothetically speaking… IF I could simply snap my fingers and manifest this ‘modes-version’ of Ardour, and immediately, visually hide like 50% of the settings by simply switching modes, it could be very helpful for new and average users alike.

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As another example, in just a hypothetical “Normal mode”, you could probably de-clutter the DAW by simply hiding:

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I mean come on, the “Scripting” window (for example) is DEFINITELY an “Advanced” or “Expert” feature if I’ve ever seen one. There’s literally no reason to show this to someone who’s just getting started and who would like (or expects) a more Apple ‘Garageband’ kind of feel.

All in all, I’m telling you, it’s a cool idea.
→ The ‘only problem’ is the absolute, utter hell of a nightmare it would be to implement.
→ Hence, probably dead on arrival.

hahaha : /

[paul (Paul Davis)]

Actually, all those menus are defined in a text file, and can be edited by anyone that can use a text editor.

[prokoudine (Aleksandr Prokudin)]

That would be a lot of fun from the UX and documentation point of view.

1. “Why does everybody have a feature on their screenshots that I don’t have? Is there another paid version somewhere? Or do I need to upgrade? What’s happening?”

2. “Why does the documentation explain this feature and I don’t have it?”

Common sense suggests that before implementing global behavior switches, it’s best to streamline UX/UI as much as humanly possible. Merging and adapting toolbar changes from Mixbus 11 would be a good step towards that, IMO.

[GhostsonAcid]

In defense of the idea, it’s not like any of what you’re saying is really a problem.

In the example program I gave (Prusa Slicer), they make it 1000% obvious:

-And clearly indicate what settings belong to which category via colored markers:

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(But I also get it if this particular approach/style seems kinda goofy for Ardour/a DAW.)

I think if you use Ardour regularly then it’s easy to lose a clear understanding of how a newcomer might feel when first opening the program… It can be utterly bewildering.

So at a certain point, do you just keep tacking-on buttons and options and windows for EVERY user to initially see by default, → or, do you potentially pivot and develop a kind of two-tiered(?) architecture where the average user isn’t bombarded by a seemingly-endless maze of options they can’t decipher?

All in all, it’s just an idea to make Ardour potentially more inviting to ‘amateurs’/newcomers.

But hey, Ardour’s not necessarily geared-towards people who just want a version of Garageband (or whatever), so I completely understand the perception that this idea might be stupid in this particular context.

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But yeah, I can agree with this:

@prokoudine

Common sense suggests that before implementing global behavior switches, it’s best to streamline UX/UI as much as humanly possible.

[paul (Paul Davis)]

@GhostsonAcid

I think if you use Ardour regularly then it’s easy to lose a clear understanding of how a newcomer might feel when first opening the program… It can be utterly bewildering.

This is why I am on IRC and these forums 24/7 … that’s how I get to hear, over and over and over, what the elements of the first-time experience are.

[paul (Paul Davis)]

@GhostsonAcid

All in all, it’s just an idea to make Ardour potentially more inviting to ‘amateurs’/newcomers.

But hey, Ardour’s not necessarily geared-towards people who just want a version of Garageband (or whatever),

The problem with this model is that almost nobody uses Garageband for more than several months if they get serious about recording/mixing music. Lots of people start with “I just want to record my voice and piano/guitar/whatever”; within a couple of months they are dealing with automation, plugins, side chain compression etc. etc. In the Apple ecosystem, you “graduate” to Logic Pro.

[aFunkyBass (Guido)]

Let’s see it from a different perspective: instead of hiding or showing options based on the user skills level, I would go for more/less common settings. I guess it’s relatively easy to tell if an option can be in “most common list” or not, and thus prune the preferences page.

The switch in this case would be “Most common options” vs. “All options”…

[Majik (Keith Milner)]

Personally, I favour the approach being taken by @jmantra with Logical Ardour.

And if the.menu customisation is there out-of-the-box to support a simplified version, then all the better.

I could see a situation where there is a rough equivalent to Garageband, and an “upgrade” to full Ardour, but with the application essentially being the same thing.

The awkward thing really.would then be how the “upgrade” happens. Is it a simple script or command to run against Logical Ardour, or is.it a new download.

I realise it’s largely an artificial distinction for use who are already familiar with Ardour, but it might be a very real and tangible distinction for typical new users.

Cheers,

Keith

[tristan.tarrant]

Preference Modes are a terrible idea.
It’s better to invest the time in finding a clearer way to organize preferences .

[jmantra]

Just to be clear LogicalArdour is the full version of Ardour just with some lua and python scripts as well as a specialized config folder so all the templates and lua scripts work.

The way it’s installed is through a shell script that will install Ardour (If you don’t already have it installed) for you either from the repos or if your distro is older it wil install the dependencies and compile it for you.

It then install all the needed plugins and dependencies then installs the config files under ~/.config/ardour(8 or 9). It also installs any binary versions of the python scripts and additional content under a folder called /opt/LogicalArdour.

[heit0r]

Better not. I began with Audacity and when I learn Ardour for what I needed, it became simpler than Audacity for me. Even when a friend just want to record his voice, I try to introduce him to Ardour and show that 20% features everybody needs. And at the end of the day, people just don’t want to only record a voice. They always want a little bit more but don’t know how to do it yet. And Ardour and its non-destructive way of editing is just awesome and comes right in handy. Not to mention plugins on the fly, sidechain, routing, etc