After three fresh installs, two OS's it's still happening

#1

Hey guys,
I hoping for some definitive answers/help on this one. Back in October, twice- then in December and now again last week I had done fresh installs to try out Ubuntu Studio, compared to Ubuntu Mate 24.04, and Debian 13. I have spend an lots of times trying to find the best fit to host my studio system. I found Ubuntu Studio a bit to bloated and preferred Ubuntu Mate 24.04 but on most machines (about 6 PCs) I have always had errors on boot with 24.04. The errors aren’t defined as to what application is causing them on most boot ups to the desktop. For all of my PC’s I put up with it, but for the studio PC I was trying to avoid it even-though I really do like the layout of 24.04 MATE. I was talking with the Ardour team guys and figured I would try out Debian 13. Loved it but wow did it take a lot to setup for studio use…especially when it came to packages that I took for granted were in Ubuntu already “out of box” that are not in Debian. I was planning on sticking with Debian.

So with all of these OS’s I thought everything was stable at first then started having shut down errors like “The system will power off now! [FAILED] Failed unmounting run-user-1000.mount - /run/user/1000”
I also had plenty off boot errors also where the system simply wouldn’t boot. I have always had two NTFS internal drives one is for the MUSIC data projects. This drive is a new Kingston SDD, the other is everything else related to the studio PC including applications, backup of the MUSIC drive and lots of other related support files, drivers, apps, notes. This drive is a SATA HDD.
The OS drive is now a new SDD drive as well.
I should mentioned that I’m TRYING really hard to move off of Windows and Cubase for good but wow…lots and lots of stress and wasted time trying to get up and running. Everytime I think I’m there a surprise awaits.

Now as part of the Windows transition I needed to either get my MOTU MIDI express 128 working in linux or find a better solution. I tried out the reversed engineered driver from GitHub. Although it was a pain to figure out how to install it I did manage to do it…like five times total. Three of those times were to make sure I knew what I was doing before I committed it to a final OS install and studio setup. However when I started having boot issue and kernel errors I was thinking it had to do with this MOTU drive that was I guess a kernel module. But this time I had already used this custom driver or the MOTU in Ubuntu Studio and then again in Debian 13.

In Debain two weeks ago the OS locked up and nothing I could do other than a reboot would help. Upon the reboot I got kernel errors. The machine never booted again and although I’m sure I could have figured out what to do to make it work I decided I would go back to Ubuntu Mate 24.04 but this time not use the MOTU and find a better (USB Class Complaint) midi interface. Debian was great but a took a long time to learn what I needed to install (apps, etc.) to get it the way I wanted it. But since the crash I figured I had to likely reinstall anyway so I just went back to my old standby Ubuntu Mate 24.04.

After the fresh install of Mate 24.04 I slowly get everything working again but not only did I not install the MOTU driver but I didn’t even connected the MOTU to the pc at all as I found two similar devices that are class complient.
So I’m working on a project and noticed when I attempted to open a recent project in Ardour that there was nothing at all showing up in list of recent projects…and when navigating to the MUSIC drive where all the projects where there was nothing showing on the drive at all. I was stressing out. I open the file manager and neither NTFS drive was accessible…but five mins ago both where. The FSTAB looked fine. Rebooted the machine…there is were I got the first error “[FAILED] Failed unmounting run-user-1000.mount - /run/user/1000"” When the machine was up and running again neither NTFS drive was even showing up now.!

There were several attempts to reboot where I would get errors and when looking at the logs…that were pages and pages long I couldn’t really understand what the issues were. I had also noticed one or more times that the drive device path had changed for some reason. So instead of the music drive being on like /dev/sdc1 it was like /dev/sdf1…or something that wasn’t what it was before so the FSTAB file was no longer correct. What the hell is going on here???

I had my test install I did back in October of Mate 24.04 on a HDD…no and SDD and boot from it. Everything worked…drives were accessible…no issues what so ever. I started looking into the error and I found that SDD seem to be causing some if not all of these issues. I have the OS on a new SDD and the MUSIC drive is also on an SDD but the OS drive used to be on a standard HDD.

Any clue guys what is going on here? I haven’t really been productive in like 4 months because of things like this. I’m not sure what to do…switch back to HDD instead of SDD??
Can the FSTAB be configured to use the device ID instead of the device path so it will never change?

So I don’t think the MOTU driver was ever the real problem so I might just use it again but I need to understand what is going on and why.
Any thoughts on this mess guys???

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#2

Have you tried running memtest86 lately?

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#3

I’m not sure I understand your partitioning scheme. Are you running both Windows and Linux on the machine? If so, I would format one of the SSDs to NTFS and install Windows on it. Then I’d format the other SSD to ext4 and install Linux on it. They can share the EFI partition created by Windows, and the BIOS boot menu can be used to select the OS to boot. I’d format the HDD to exFAT and use it as a shared data drive between the two OSes.

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#4

Sounds to me like your “new” SSD might be ‘the problem’. :man_shrugging: Did you pick it up more-or-less ‘randomly’, or get an SSD that is definitively known to be good for your exact computer hardware + GNU/Linux?

I suggest looking-up lists of recommended SSDs for your exact hardware used with GNU/Linux (or your particular Linux OS, if such information exists). Typically on forum posts out there (for example) you can find such lists/comparative tables/etc… And then potentially get one (-probably of a different brand/type). (Also, for testing purposes and to save money, you can typically get a smaller (e.g.) ±128GB version, and/or buy used in your local area, or off eBay, etc…)

I’m sorry you’re dealing with such BS though. I know exactly what that feels like…

Also, IMO, but I suggest that if you’re not so deep in the ‘GNU/Linux world’ ((like me)) and simply want a system that ‘works’, it’s not necessarily wise to use the OSes used and recommended by those that are. All in all, it’s okay to stick with the more ‘normie’ OS (e.g. Ubuntu Studio), and leave the endless rabbit-hole of customization to the ‘pros’ that are experts in chasing rabbits. :slight_smile:

-Again, just my opinion. :grimacing:

~Good-luck!

-J

#5

Yes actually. Just did it prior to writing this post. All is good and I have the same setup using a “normal” hdd drive and never ran into this problem. In fact as I type this reply to you guys I’m using an install I did in October of the same exact version of the OS Ubuntu MATE 24.04 LTS and no issue. But the RAM is good

#6

Hey Gunther, No. I wouldn’t run a dual boot…especially with Win 11 as it will overwrite the linux partition if it sees it. The Windows drive is a SSD but not being used and not installed in the machine. The Ubuntu/Linux drive is a separate drive…single partition…just / only. I’ve read there is issues like this that I’m having using SSD and flash drives. It’s always something! I’m soooo tired of this stuff. It wastes so much time and I still don’t have any clue what is going on. All that I know for sure if when I run standard HDD drives the problem doesn’t happen.

#7

Thanks Ghost.
Well it’s a well known brand Kingston which I’ve used countless times on other machine but the issues I’m having time and time again…it makes me want to toss all the gear into a dumpster and torch it. So sick of it. I haven’t made a bit of real progress since last December because of all of this crap. It’s hard enough to move every project from WIndows/Cubase to Linux/Ardour…plugin compatibility…proprietary hardware…you name it but an SSD issues with booting and drives changing paths, etc!!

In regards to your last comment about “deep linux world” not I’m not. I honestly didn’t like the bloat that is in Ubuntu Studio as I think you should be able to pick the specific discipline you’re going to use it for before it installs EVERYTHING that could be considered “creative” software but I found that Ubuntu Mate 24.04 with the “Ubuntu Studio” package allows you to do just that. pick and choose. Debian 13 although really lean…wow did it take A LOT to setup the way I wanted it. Like nearly 40 extra packages…a ton of config changes…so many things I took for granted that are in Ubuntu isn’t in Debian. I have scripts and lots of notes to set it up. But when I started having these issues and the OS mentioned to me that the root user wasn’t never created (su) which I forgot that Ubuntu typically only allows sudo without the root user…I ditched Debian. Not because I didn’t like it but because it’s add even more baggage to other issues I’m having. I was looking for a stable system and right now it’s far more volatile than the Windows install. I might just go with Enterprise HDDs rather than SSD’s That’s what I’m running on now but like I mentioned before, this is an install I did in October for testing and it has a ton of other junk on here that I don’t want…so I may just wipe this HDD and do my finally install and back over the SSDs with my truck.

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#8

Yes, you can use the UUID of the filesystem.
For example, my root filesystem entry in fstab is this:
UUID=f89dff8e-749a-4bfa-a42a-0144acc00820 / xfs defaults 0 1

You can find the UUID using lsblk -f command.

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#9

Having repeated problems with completely different distributions would typically point to hardware problems rather than software problems. If you have a machine with a stable OS install you could add the Kingston SSD to the machine and just run extended self-test using smartctl (or whatever utility Kingston has to do the same thing on Windows).

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#10

Hey Chris, Perfect. Yes this is a better way. It seems like when the drives are not seen by the OS for some reason everything gets bumped up on when it comes to it’s device name. I have never ran into to many problems…and the scary part is that I haven’t even gotten to the Windows Plugin’s working in Linux yet or finding alternative to them for native linux plugins…which I’m very unlikely to find for less common VST instruments.

I’ll change the FSTAB to use UUID instead of device naming. At least this will give me a bit more confidence that when/if a drive isn’t recognized for whatever reason the drive ID will at least be correct.
Thank you for your input.
C

#11

Yup, I couldn’t agree with you more. I make a change to SSD’s because of their data rate speed and reliability and what I get is far more less reliability that I’ve every had in like 35 years of working with computers. I might as well have a chipmunk powering my system as I think it would be more reliable. I just have to remember to feed them and give em water.

Well here’s the thing. The OS I’m running now to write this post is the one I did in October. Same exact OS as I had trouble with last week…the difference??? This one is running on a Seagate enterprise HDD where as the other was running on a Kingston SSD. The issue is that this install of the OS was never meant to be a permanent solution as it was my test bed to try out everything before I dedicated to a configuration that I’m keeping. So this OS install on the HDD has a lot of junk on it…older versions of Ardour…but it does have the MOTU reversed engineered driver which seems to be working fine. So the whole time I thought the booting issues was with this MOTU driver, it appears to be the other drives.

Ok the OS drive I wanted it to be on an SSD drive for no other reason of it not being a “mechanical” drive. The MUSIC drive where all of the music DAW projects are I really want them to be on an SSD drive due to the data rate speed. So right now I’m running the OS on the Seagate HDD…the MUSIC drive on a Kingston SSD and the STORAGE drives which is the drive that everything else is on is also an HDD. This seems to work just fine. So my OS drive can’t be an SSD??

I’ve read on many forums that SSD’s as OS drives can cause issue due to the fact that they operate so fast that the OS itself is slower than the processes (to shut down the system) it self.
Could this really be true?

So is this really another case where better tech actually causes more problems?
I’m not thinking to reformat this HDD drive, configure it the way I want it, install everything on it and be done with it and not use the SSD for the OS.
Thanks again Chris,
C

#12

Correct, the names in /dev are based on order of device discovery and are not guaranteed to be consistent if devices are added or removed.

Seems more likely that you just got a bad SSD, my work laptop runs from SSD, I work with many servers which boot from SSD and use SSD for data storage. Those are not off the shelf consumer quality drives, though. I have never used Kingston in any business computer systems, they are not a primary drive supplier (meaning a company like Micron, Samsung, Solidigm, Toshiba, Seagate, etc.).

Complete nonsense, those people are obviously not involved in the design or system administration of computers. I don’t think you will find any business class desktop or laptop computer sold today which doesn’t boot from SSD. You probably can find one if you try, but the default and the vast majority use SSD.

No, it’s a case where cheap consumer versions of better tech causes more problems. Buy a decent Samsung or Solidigm SSD and you would be fine.

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#13

Ok thanks man. So…I guess the Kingston SSDs are not good enough. I was going to buy another one…an return this one. Maybe I’ll still do that but I’ll be looking for a business class SSD instead then. Yeah soooo true what you said about nearly every PC on the market today uses an SSD as the OS drive. Not sure why that didn’t come up in my thought process but you’re so right.

Ok …“Code 5” on the Kingston drives then. I’ll go with the same brands that I uses for the companies servers as well.
Thanks for your input. I feel a lot less defeated than I did an hour ago!
I’m going to put in an order now and get this show on the road.
It’s been like 6 or more months of this crap. Up and down…working then not working and I haven’t even started the thing that I thought was going to be the real challenge…the Windows plugs to Linux stuff.

Thanks again bud! I truly appreciate your time, effort and logical thinking!
Chris

#14

hey Chris,
In the next day or so I need to overhaul this system. For now I’m going to use the stable Seagate HDD that I have the OS running on now. I want to rectify the fstab file to reflect the UUID rather than the path of the two NTFS drives. If I still didn’t have to go back into Windows to finished the transfers from Cubase to Ardour and if I was 100 percent sure I was done and never needed to go back to Windows (pulling the music files from this MUSIC drive) I would just formatted the drive for Linux only but this is what I’m dealing with so it’s NTFS.
With that said I want to replace the drive dev path with the UUID.
The last two lines of my fstab is this:

/dev/sdc1 /mnt/STORAGE_Drive ntfs-3g defaults,rw,uid=1000,gid=1000,umask=000,x-gvfs-show 0 0
/dev/sdb1 /mnt/MUSIC_Drive ntfs-3g defaults,rw,uid=1000,gid=1000,umask=000,x-gvfs-show 0 0

So am I simply replacing the /dev/sdc1 and /dev/sdb1 with the UUID or is there a different format that’s necessary for the UUID?
Chris

#15

I was considering just using my existing Ubuntu Mate 24.04 install since it’s stable and already running on the HDD that I was going to use. It’s not the cleanest install it could be that’s for sure so I was planning on doing it over but while backing up everything from the MUSIC drive all went well except for the most recent important stuff and that’s the Ardour folder. It’s having trouble with midi files transfer? I’ve attached a screenshot of the error but so far haven’t got to the bottom of the issue.

MidiFileCopyError
MidiFileCopyError1465×238 20.9 KB

Any clue what the issue might be? Some day I’ll actually get back to working on music again!
Chris

#16

“input/output error” message is typical symptom of hardware error from whatever piece of meat is mounted on /mnt/MUSIC_Drive
This is a good solid error you can count on to expand your knowledge on using ddrescue before the symptom spreads or you use that drive (meaning don’t).

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#17

Hmm so the very drive that I’m suspecting that is causing all of my problems since about January…it likely causing this issue too because this data is located on the same suspect Kingston drive and I’m sure that the drive crashed during the project that this data is in. Wow. Kingston SSD are junk.
Thank you!! I’ll look into ddrescue but in the mean time I just backed up the data of this drive (which was happening every day anyway) but now I get to back over this drive with my truck.

Thanks Loki…all of these problems are making a lot of sense now!
C

#18

Just to be complete, the error could come anywhere in the chain, drive controller, cable, or drive.
Drive error is most likely, but that is why it is useful to run extended SMART tests, try a different drive attached to the same controller and cable, and check with a different cable.

#19

That might be true in your case.

I am using 2 Kinston SSD drives for more the 6 years, with all kinds of Operating systems and distro’s, several partitions, Ardour with all the possible plugins, a lot of other free software and never had any problem at all.

This is part of my fstab file.

UUID=50AB694170879D83 /media/jean/backup ntfs defaults 0 3
UUID=8ED4D13AD4D1256D /media/jean/backup_extern ntfs defaults 0 3
UUID=cc9d82f2-c9ab-4018-bc2f-6dd25e618f44 /media/jean/audio ext4 defaults 0 3

Good luck.

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#20

Agreed, you just may have a duff one. It happens with all vendors. A few years ago Seagate spinning disks had a terrible reputation for early failures.

I have been running SSDs on my main workstation and a couple of servers for years. One problem with any R/W whether spinning rust or SSD, they are guaranteed to fail, eventually. And, IMO, when SSDs fail they tend to fail quickly and catastrophically.

In my case I have had (with one exception) 5+ years of life from my SSDs, and I work them quite hard.

I have been running the main OS drives as a mirrored pair of SSDs for some time now, which (providing you pay attention to the RAID health) gives you some protection. I also use timeshift on my desktop systems, and other backup on my servers.

Cheers,

Keith

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