Which distro is best for Ardour in the long term?

Installation & Configuration Linux
#41

Another helpful reply to my question! I’m leaning towards AVL, but I’ve learnt something from every single response here. I’ve tested several Debian based distros for general use, and there seems to be no overstating the importance of the Debian team in getting Linux ready for the mainstream. AVL is based on MX, which is based on Debian. I was never really a fan of standard Ubuntu, but Mint had almost no learning curve - a fantastic system for general use. Even antiX, the specialty distro I use for older hardware, is based on Debian.

I hear you regarding financial support…

#42

I have been running Ardour on a few different distros so far, mainly Zorin OS, Elementary OS and Ubuntu. What I’ve found is, generally, if you like to use Flatpak and have in hand some basic setup steps to get your audio setup working the way you want, it pretty much doesn’t matter what you go with and comes more down to what you like as your preconfigured desktop environment.

AV Linux and Ubuntu Studio were both things that I experimented with, but I’m not a fan of their default desktop setups and if I have to choose between a distro where I have to spend lots of time configuring my desktop versus one where I have to spend time configuring my audio, I’d prefer the latter; Pipewire makes it very simple.

At this point, I am happily settled on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, using the upstream Debian Pipewire PPA and Ardour flatpak, plus using flatpaks for almost all of my plugins. You can’t run Windows VSTs via bridges this way (that I am aware of), but I am not missing any of them. Doing this has got me at a good position where I am running the latest Ardour and the latest plugins, with an up-to-date Pipewire, all on top of a stable base that’s customised the way I like it.

#43

Thanks for a different perspective. I’ve fooled around enough in Linux to know that DEs matter to people. I’ve also fooled around enough to know it takes a long time to get a DAW working to my liking. In my case, the DE would matter less, as I would center everything around the DAW. And Ardour’s behavior doesn’t depend so much on the DE, as far as I can tell? I haven’t tried using Flatpaks yet, so that’s another thing to learn about. I also see opinions are divided on Pipewire. I think I’ll go for a more traditional JACK setup to begin with, but it’s interesting to see that you’re very happy with it.

#44

Hi,

Like everything Flatpak is a choice, I have opinions like anyone else but I think using Flatpak for Audio applications and having to customize the plugin locations is reason enough to just say no… Only Linux could solve the problem of software deployment of binaries in two dominant formats (RPM, DEB) with THREE formats (AppImage, Snap and Flatpak)… It would be laughable if it wasn’t so annoyingly stupid… AppImage was sane at least… a self-contained single binary you could put anywhere and run, easy and portable. I’d love someone to explain to me how Flatpak infiltrating and spraying shrapnel into /var and other completely unfamiliar places in the file tree and now drawing in infinite numbers of dependencies from other places is anything but a complete re-invention of APT and RPM repository systems? It works primarily the same except everything goes where you don’t expect and you have to stow your Plugins in a non-standard location. Sorry, this is not progress.

Ardour prepares and provides a perfectly functional self-contained binary that already works on almost all Linuces, Flatpak Ardour is just an inconvenient and unsupported end-run around what the Ardour developers have already perfected IMHO.

5 Likes
#45

I don’t know much about Flatpaks since I have never installed one, but I agree it makes little sense to use an unsupported version of the program packaged by someone not involved with the project and whose packaging may alter core functionality when Ardour’s developers provide a supported, distro-agnostic installer. I would think using a repo-version of Ardour would be preferred over the Flatpak version given the issues with third party plugins I have read about from users who installed the Flatpak.

2 Likes
#46

Always got my Ardour from Ardour.org throughout the years (on UbuntuStudiu)
Never had any issue with installation of new releases.
My experience.

1 Like
#47

Why can’t there just be one packaging format that all distros use. And why can’t there be more standardization for all of Linux in general. Now we have the wild west and mad max world.

There can be as many as a million distros, as long as there are common standards to follow. But do you think it will happen? You shouldn’t hold your breath.

Now there is a danger that Linux will be destroyed in chaos in the end. Now there is a kind of anarchy even if consensus is needed

1 Like
#48

So, this subthread has some points of interest to me. I share some of the same concerns as Mika. On the one hand, Linux is fantastic in so many ways: Freedom to customize your system the way you want it, freedom from corporations and their whims, freedom of monetary cost. On the other hand, the freedom of choice is complicated. Even well educated users have different opinions. I primarily want a stable system to make music on, but this discussion has shown me that there’s a tradeoff whatever decision you make. Thanks to the previous commenters for highlighting these issues, and educating me.

#49

Still, Linux is really good for media production, at least in my opinion. It could also be better. And it could be the best if things are developed in the right way, with mutual understanding.

That’s why perhaps some kind of “coalition” is needed to ensure that things develop in the right direction. Discussion and cooperation have usually improved things.

2 Likes
#50

Sigh…

Seablade
7 Likes
#51

If you look at things other than software and the computer world, you will quickly notice what standardization really means.

First, check for example machine design, ship building or electrical engineering. If they had been handled like this, the world would have exploded a long time ago.

If we have the laws of the jungle, things will happen as they happen in the jungle

Linux as a system has grown (and fragmented )and we are at the point where someone has to do something and sharing the same image doesn’t really help. Sure, it’s fun, but is it constructive?

1 Like
#52

My brother! My go-to xkcd :slight_smile:

#53

But… the next step, is the walled garden. I really don’t think that’s what we want. But this thread is beyond its original intent and is going into the weeds.

Linux is not going anywhere, and if you choose a modern distro, even if someone… silences that distro’s developers, you will have years of functionality before you have to migrate to something different, which will be, from 19th century eyes, indistinguishable from each other. So the worries are overblown, in my opinion. And put in my vote for closing this thread.

#54

On a recent fire incident that involved firefighters from both my local city and county, those present discovered that the city and county firefighters could not talk to each other on their radios, because they used different channel definitions. Furthermore, the thread sizing on the hydrants in the city differ from those used by the county, creating problems when trying to connect hose lines from the “wrong” fire engines.

Sometimes, the distance between the theory and practice of “standardization” turns out to be greater in practice than in theory.

1 Like
#55

Whenever the human mind does something, there is a big risk that the end result will be a disaster. That’s why I didn’t mention the nuclear power industry, for example, because I remember Chernobyl and Fukushima.

But you will surely understand what I mean by good and effective standardization. It is sufficiently broad and individual, but also sufficiently minimal. And always open, i.e. free

1 Like
#57

Going back to the topic →

Which distro is best for Ardour in the long term?

There’s not a single reply. Everyone has different tastes and suggestions about their Audio/Video workstation. Just use what you really like and feel comfortable with that. Over the years I tried a lot. My serious start with GNU/Linux was with Debian Sarge. I also used among many others Red Hat, Fedora, Mandrake, Suse, Antix, AVLinux and Ubuntu-Studio.

Some years ago I switched back again to Debian. Aware of my old hardware that day I started with a clean net-install; so basically I installed just the core, then I added the “bricks” to build my own distro. When asked what kernel to install I immediately chosed just the RT Kernel (my hardware is old, but still works). I choosed Mate (ex Gnome2) as desktop environment for daily use. And FluxBox windows manager for my heavy tasks.

Actually Debian 12 point to a direction that change the game under the hood. It replaces Pulse Audio with Pipewire. Nothing that you notice until you reboot and your settings have to be redone. The only issue I noticed is with Alsamixer. The volume levels I set aren’t saved at the next reboot. I tried the traditional command: “sudo alsactl store” but doesn’t works. I tried also the command: “sudo alsactl --file ~/.config/asound.state store” so I thought about a hack/workaround.

In fact I didn’t had such issues with Debian 11. Probably, introducing Pipewire as a new audio service, so, trying to replace PulseAudio, they made a little mess into the init files and systemd. I made a lot of search and I found that this bug issue date back many years ago and was never really fixed. Looks like it appears time by time over the years. Anyway I create a workaround to get over the issue:

1 - Open Alsamixer via terminal

2 - Set your values. Let the terminal to be open during this step

3 - Open another terminal, go create the asound.state file with:

:~$ sudo /usr/sbin/alsactl --file ~/.config/asound.state store

4 - Create a shell script with this and save with a name you like:

#!/bin/bash

pkexec /usr/sbin/alsactl --file ~/.config/asound.state restore

echo "Start alsactl-restore"

5 - Make the shell script file-name.sh executable

6 - Create new menu launchers if needed

In the end GNU/Linux is a world that require the need to learn new things. Every distro can be good if you set the right proceding paths. Linux it will always be a matter of hacks/workarounds and fixes. You have extreme solutions to extreme problems, but you get the point. The most important part is to learn how to find and fix the issues

So Ardour in the long term? Matter of facts you can build your own and it will works flawlessly.

#58

Thanks for your reply! As a relative newcomer to Linux, looking at your workaround to your issue, I’m thinking: This is exactly the kind of scenario I want to avoid.

Based on all the advice so far, I have really made a decision already. I’m going to try to get AVL working. Before I commit to it, I have to set up some hardware and do some more testing. But I hope I can get a stable system that will last me at least five years.

I’m happy to see more replies to my question, though!

1 Like
#59

So, this discussion has come full circle.

1 Like
#60

I really understand the feeling and I really support to use AVLinux. A very strong Debian based distro made for Audio and Video production. The main developer @GMaq Glen MacArthur the developer behind the distro explained very well the strenght and the flaws he encountered and as he offer his distro to use. That’s great. You made a really great choice! :metal:

2 Likes
#61

I’m using AVlinux in my studio. I only use it these days. and a selection of commercial Linux plugins in addition.

This is stable and works smoothly. I mainly use the Mixbus 32C but I also keep the Ardour on that side because it’s nice to have. I am glad to have the opportunity to do this. Without AVlinux I might have been lost. Although I also tried Ubuntu studio from live USB and it worked too, but I like this AVlinux better.

If it works on your machine now, it will probably work tomorrow, and so on. So use it with joy, make music.