sorry mr. davis, i hope this is a joke!!! otherwise, you have to be ashamed. this is a public forum.
While I am not him, I can say with a fair amount of certainty it is not. Not sure why you would say he has to be ashamed though, he is within his rights, just as much as it is technically legal to make another build of Ardour on OS X and distribute it.
and anyway... what is the meaning of "you are scum"? i come from europe, germany. here, most people using expressions like this, are right wing extremist or similar orientated people and only sometimes.... simple brainless people . please be careful what you say on public places.
You are scum refers to him saying that to avoid paying $1 for what is a large maount of work in setting up and building ardour on OS x, he would rather attempt to take away what is a not-insignificant source of income for the person responsible for the work. It is a response to essentially being called worthless in not so many words. It has nothing to do with being brainless, extremist, or anything of that nature.
Note that the problem isn’t with the building it yourself to save the $1, it is with the purposefully distributing it to take away a source of income for the person responsible for it.
i talk about the meaning of “you are scum” in german: “du bist abschaum” or “du bist dreck” and a lot of similar expressions.
here, this is a not used strong defamatory expression. sorry if you don’t understand this.
i don’t talk about money, work, lost livetime or anything…
and you are not mr. davis. do you know his intension?
and the most important thing:
mr, davis is the main developer and (i hope) something like a forum adminstrator. so…
if (administrator){
i hope this is not the level of contend
}
else if (administrator && level of contend)
{
Pity!
}
i talk about the meaning of "you are scum" in german: "du bist abschaum" or "du bist dreck" and a lot of similar expressions.
here, this is a not used strong defamatory expression. sorry if you don't understand this.
It is not a nice expression in English, however it is far from the worst that could have been said. And while in German a direct translation may be much worse than in English, I honestly don’t know, the point of translations sometimes is to compensate for that. I say this as someone that deals quite often with translators and translations of various phrases, and has on occasion had to go back and tell a translator they have to retranslate something because they took things more literally or direct and they don’t convey the same meaning.
In other words, I understand you think it is awful as its direct translation in German, but it was said in English on an English speaking forum, so I don’t think you can apply the same mindset to it.
i don't talk about money, work, lost livetime or anything..............
I didn’t say you did. You asked about the phrase, I tried to explain the intent of it since a direct translation may or may not convey that intent. In order to do so I put it in the context, which involved those things. I didn’t say you said any of those things however.
and you are not mr. davis. do you know his intension?
I have my guesses. The one point where I gave a response based off my impressions from talking to him, I feel I am probably pretty close to correct, especially since we have discussed exactly this topic. However I am not him and he can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I just gave my own impressions.
if (administrator){
i hope this is not the level of contend
}
else if (administrator && level of contend)
{
Pity!
}
Not sure what you mean by contend here.
Based off your past reaction I imagine you mean to imply that as a site admin he should have better behavior? That is a personal choice, sometimes to get the point across you have to be blunt. It can be much better to be clear than to be nice in many circumstances.
@is the project … : I certainly intended to make a very strong, very visceral statement. Seablade has accurately summarized my motivations. Anybody who plans to distribute their own binaries of Ardour for OS X in order to provide a short cut around the current “pay tunnel” (in which you can pay nothing for an almost perfectly useable version of Ardour, or as little as US$1 for a version that also has AU state handling) is, in my eyes, “scum”. They are either willfully blind to how work on Ardour is supported, or intentionally seeking to sabotage the only thing that makes it possible. I wake up every morning and once my kids are off to school, get down to coding, design, forum interactions, IRC discussions and more. I do that for 8-9hrs a day, and often on weekends, and the only reason I can do that is because of the financial support of the user community.
Thats what I like with Reaper: Justin doesn’t duty me to pay -there is a notice on the first screen (please pay), but he didn’t call me a scum or threated me to hunt me down when I don’t pay or distribute reaper to other people. There is simply no need for Reaper at piratebay because the user have the choice. Many of them choose to pay because of the quality. OK it is closed software, but better truly closed full featured software then “free software with wild west hunt you down mentality”.
The sound makes the music: Everybody is free to act stingy and fearful or generously and open minded. Maybe it is a better idea to devel closed software first with all features and then later free the code (Like with StarOffice/OpenOffice Netscape/Firefox).
mr. davis,
sorry, this is really pitty. don’t know what i have to thing about this. i hope you dou’t know what kind of people normally use expressions like like “scum” and i “hunt you down” in one sentence. if you know this, it is maybe a good idea give bands like “oidoxie”, “noie werte”, “race war” a free ardour support. think their lyrics a bit similar your expressions.
they will hunt people because they are scum. !!!???
please think about this! because this is a public place, everybody can read your utterances. we live in 2009 and not dark age.
What would you prefer me to call someone who, because they haven’t bothered to understand most of the details of how you get Ardour, and because they think that paying US$1 for work that I’ve put years into is just too much, decides to threaten my livelihood? A nice person? I should smile at them and congratulate them on their stunning intellectual and moral honesty?
Threatening to build your own version of Ardour for OS X because you refuse to pay anything for a version with AU state support is fine with me. Thats why the source (and even build instructions) are all available. Just don’t ask me for help doing it - I did a build for you already.
But … threatening to put your build on PirateBay as a way to spite my financial model is more than not fine with me. Its the action of scum.
If you like the Reaper model and Reaper software (which is actually very good), then please go ahead and use Reaper. It will likely serve you very well.
I chose a different model because the size of my potential user base is currently smaller (no Windows version) and because I want Ardour to remain under the GPL so that other people (including the guys who write Reaper) can learn from our mistakes and our insights. Both the Reaper guys and myself are free to make those choices.
But just remember when you put a copy of Reaper on PirateBay (or make idle threats to do so), be sure to post about it at forums.cockos.com and see if Justin and the rest of the gang there is so happy about your attitude.
You made a direct on my livelihood. Direct. Unashamed. Blatant. Why do you think I should not be aggressively negative toward you? I’ve spent years (and hundreds of thousands of my own money) working on this project. Just because you have the legal right to do something, do you think you have the moral right to act like such a insensitive and arrogant idiot in the forums here?
i hope you dou't know what kind of people normally use expressions like like "scum" and i "hunt you down" in one sentence. if you know this, it is maybe a good idea give bands like "oidoxie", "noie werte", "race war" a free ardour support. think their lyrics a bit similar your expressions.
they will hunt people because they are scum. !!!???
I don’t know those bands you mentioned, however given the context I think you missed something important here. Paul did not say that he would hunt anyone down because they were scum. Them being scum is just a fact of life. Paul did say however he would hunt them down and ridicule them not because they were scum, but because they are willing to directly undercut a primary means of financial support. Both are true for the same reason, but they do not mean the same thing, and the final description of action is extremely important context here and should not be removed from a quote.
By the way, I post these clarifications because I am familiar with problems in direct translations not carrying over the actual meaning of a phrase or comment. It is one of the jobs I make money off of is to catch problems like that.
Why are you moaning about one damn euro or fifty cents here, wasting everybody’s time?
The way I see the Ardour deal for Mac users is very simple (and fair):
Want to evaluate, download, use it, minus the full comfort (nothing extraordinary about this on most platforms).
Want to use Ardour:
a) Got time to burn: compile your own fully featured Ardour
b) You value your time: donate something, even 50 cents (and even earn a good karma point or two in the process).
Are you truly glad that your “(fake) announcement” has wasted Paul’s and everybody else’s time? If you are really unhappy with the new model, wish the community luck and go in peace. I am sure those wishes would be reciprocated.
mr. davis, be sure that most people including me understand your situation. and also everybody notice that you try to find a concept to live from this project. really no problem here!
also, everybody can study the General Public License you have published ardour, so everybody know what is possible and what is not possible. also most people have a working conscience to debrief what they do.
and just so because your situation is no laughing matter, statements like this
Laney Anders: if you have done what you claim to have done, you are scum and I will hunt you down and dishonor your name across the Internet."
are really dangerous, because this is a hotbed for dangerous ideologies.
be sure this is no fiction. take a look into the nearly young history of my country.
and @seablead it is at the minimum all the same to to play down this statement. ideologies can grow on "simply" and "maybe not really bad" sounding statements like mr. davis had made. so please be careful what you try to belittle.
peace for all people who live in permanent fear through governments based on dangers inhuman ideologies.
Guys, please, I think we should stop here and now the discussion without going further
We are very OFF topic.
Having without paying the requested fee. Is EVERYWHERE in the galaxy, called:
walk off with
swipe (rob)
plagiarize (steal property)
pinch (to steal)
hook (to steal)
bag (take unlawfully)
thieve
nick, pinch
take away
pilfer (steal)
subtract
shoplift
In some coutry they can still cut out a hand for it or worse.
Chease somebody who stealed something Is not wild west, is social arrangement.
Being in english-based forum doesn’t mean we are in an english forum, especially when the forum has the intent to reach every corner of our planet.
Some expression have different meaning and different word-weight depending on the local culture and it is a fact that we HAVE TO respect everyone.
English is the language we use, not the super-culture that rules.
Please everyone pay attention to it.
Being in english-based forum doesn't mean we are in an english forum, especially when the forum has the intent to reach every corner of our planet.
I was done with it, but wanted to correct this. You misunderstood my comment, my point was that phrases, slang, etc. should be taken in context with the English that it was posted in.
allright, but english phrases and slags have different meanings even between different english-speaking areas.
We could add a “slang dictionary” page in the website, so when people fire up its blood we can calm it down advising him/her to read carefully the meaning and the intention.
Just to notice that when “is the project” fired up its blood because he feels threatened is not totally wrong…
One last word:
I’m also from Germay, and I think the usage of the word ‘scum’ (in german and in english) has nothing to do with beeing a nazi or far-right.
And beleve me, I fight against far-right people and nazi-bands every day.
I’m on Pauls side, and would have choosen the same speech in that case. Although I understand the concerns of ‘is the project …’
Paul, your perfectly in the right to do things the way you are. One of my biggest dreams is to make a living working on projects that I love, and you seem to be doing just that. It’s inspiring! I understand the concern for the escalation of “crippleware”, but I think that the model you have going right now is perfect. Keep up the great work!
