Dante Protocol Networked Audio

Installation & Configuration Linux
#61

Dante Controller is a Java Application, however if I have peeked into the JARs accurately, it’s using binary libraries internally. I always have VirtualBox ready for Dante Controller, Blackmagic Atem Control, Allen&Heath SQ Mixpad… sad story. Especially sad with those tools that are merely network-based GUIs that really don’t have any special requirements… SQ Mixpad is even based on QT.

For a start, someone could code a driver for the RME Digiface Dante, but me and myself I’m far away from being able to do this.

Luckily, I can still be 100% Linux when doing office work, mixing down recodings, editing videos (Lightworks… oh well), editing photos etc.

#62

Apparently this is working on Linux. If you want to use Dante. But they are not cheap.

https://www.marian.de/products-archive/clara-e/?lang=en

#63

I don’t know if it is the good thread, but pipewire seem AES67 enabled.
I need a dante compatible daw for multitrack recording on the road : Yamaha CL5/QL5 is everywhere…
So, i need to find a little AES67 hardware to try this without buy a 500+€ card for my m32 ! Do you know a little tool for that ?

#64

Late answer, and not a satisfying one: If you want to do recordings from Yamaha CL/QL or Soundcraft Vi via Dante, get yourself a laptop capable of running OSX and Dante Virtual Soundcard (DVS).

DVS does not run too solidly on Windows, but if you dare, you can try some used Windows 10 laptop – it’s the least expensive option.

As a DAW, you can use Ardour. Or, if you want it easy just use Harrison LiveTrax. (If your client runs a 12k€ Yamaha QL1 and you cannot afford 15€ license for LiveTrax in order to do a recording, something is wrong with your business structure).

On Apple hardware, things become more complicated – Apple fans are telling the opposite, but they just don’t do proper work apparently. So on Intel Macs, the Belkin USB 4 to RJ-45 2,5mbps Adapter is said to work best. However, on Apple Silicon, the USB network implementation is said to be insufficient, so you’d rather want to use the Thunderbolt network adapter by Sonnet (very expensive).

Me and myself, I found out that when using higher latency settings, which is okay for multitrack live recording, the internal network adapter of the Mac Mini M1 will be fine.

AES67 would work with Linux apparently (see above post in Pipewire), but it has implications on the entire networking infrastructure since Audinate’s Dante chips can only do Multicast, and you do not want to do this, especially not with Yamaha QL/CL, where the communication with digital stage boxes is also run via Dante.

If you have a choice in mixing consoles, go for an Allen&Heath SQ-series console, which has an internal recorder that can do 32 channels at 48khz on any USB storage device fast enough (like these Samsung T7 SSDs).

Most audio engineers will not even touch Dante Controller. Too complex. Most nerds will find Dante very easy. So in order for Linux to succeed at AES67 and/or Dante, things need to become very straightforward.

#65

Sorry but I am going to have disagree with you on a LOT of things here.

This I DO agree with you on.

I would love to know why you say they don’t work properly? Considering I have been using dozens of macs running Dante for many years, and to be honest it tends to work out VERY well. Things get more complex in systems that have dozens of endpoints, but I am wagering a guess 90-95% of systems don’t fall into this, and if yours does you probably have an audio engineer to manage it. I have used both internal and USB adapters for Dante for the record without any difference, though to be honest I tend to avoid USB for Dante just because of non-locking connectors, and I don’t want them to fall out in the middle of a show.

Been running it myself on at least a half dozen (Honestly now that I think about it probably closer to a dozen) M-series macs for the past several years without issue using the internal NIC.

So I assume by this you meant in AES67 mode the chips only do Multicast? I haven’t looked lately to be able to comment on this, but there is nothing wrong with using Multicast either in my experience, and in more complex setups it is actually a benefit.

I wouldn’t pick digital consoles for live mixing based solely off that feature honestly personally. There are tons of reasons to pick one console over another, but if it doesn’t solve the primary purpose of mixing the show as well, it may not be the best option for you. I had a show I designed recently that had an SQ console in the theater, but we actualy replaced it with a GLD console (Older console less features) because it was better to mix on. I could then track the show over Dante if needed (Both of these consoles require an expansion card to use Dante for the record). The SQ series is popular in terms of bang for the buck, don’t get me wrong, but it isn’t the best to mix on in my experience.

Sorry this is flat out false. I say this as someone that has worked with hundreds of audio engineers over hundreds of shows in my venue[s]. Most audio engineers in live audio are VERY comfortable working with Dante, and in fact I am hiring a person right now that one of the requirements for the job description is Dante certification because it has become so ubiquitous.

If you think Dante is complex, I would hate to see you look at AVB honestly.

So it seems like you are saying Dante needs to become more straightforward, which I won’t say wouldn’t be a benefit, but it is far from what I would call complex right now. This is separate from Linux succeeding at Dante or AES67, which is entirely about software support really (Which ideally the manufacturer would support, but hasn’t done much so far).

Seablade
#66

What I’m trying to say is that when AES67 is not as simple to set up as Dante, people will not use it, no matter on which OS. However, the Linux community is unlikely to support Dante, folks will go for AES67, if at all.

What people consider complex or simple is a matter of circumstances and personal background. In my surroundings, audio engineers will give me a call when they have Dante as a topic. Not all of them, especially not the younger ones, but almost all of the older folks will. Yes, Dante chips will do AES67 only in multicast mode.

And yes, Dante/DVS will work with most gigabit USB network interfaces if you set latency to 11msec, and mobile Apple users don’t have any other options than external network interfaces. My claims about AES67 and special audio interfaces are more or less what Merging, manufacturers of Virtual Audio Device for AES67 and several hardware units, are saying about OS X: https://www.merging.com/uploads/assets/Installers/KHEPRI_X.0.5_HotFix4/January2023/VAD/RAVENNA-AES67%20Virtual%20Audio%20Device%20Guide.pdf

And yes, multicast does have benefits or might even become a requirement for large Dante networks. While multicast-capable switches have become cheap (see discussion above), not everybody has them. In fact, the abovementioned older audio guys often-times do not even know that multicast exists.

There is no perfect mixing console. There is a matter of taste in every brand. I personally find the Yamahas hard to use, Allen&Heath usually easy, and I use the SQ most often. I get along pretty well, both in corporate and in music events. It has things that are not ideal, like every console has. We don’t need to discuss the one and only mixing console. We also don’t need to discuss the one and only editor for programming, because Emacs is it. :rofl:

#67

Ahh understood, I misunderstood your point then, I was reading that as you were saying Dante was to complex for audio engineers.

That is actually not true. There are other options for Mac Users, for instance the newer PCI-E Dante cards located in an external enclosure via thunderbolt (Haven’t tested this, though the older cards worked) and of course things like the RUio16D from Yamaha. Both of these have the advantage of getting you redundant Dante Connections in fact. You also have options like the Yamaha DM3 which also gets you Dante IO. Though I will admit both the RUio16D and the DM3 are limited to 16 channels Dante IO IIRC.

Ok so I don’t use Ravenna’s software on this, so I would be curious for more information about what they are referring to. What I can say is it hasn’t been a problem thus far I have experienced when running Dante.

So this is part of what I do as a consultant, help people pick the best mixing console for them(And of course design the audio systems to fit their needs:). There are points I absolutely recommend people use A&H, but I think A&H have taken a step backwards in their UI of their newer consoles compared to their last gen honestly, meaning the physical layout of the controls and how you navigate the console, the software itself is a definite step up in terms of graphics etc. But they are decent consoles if you are mixing bands. I still have my iLive on the table behind me in fact because I loved that console’s approach though I was one of the only people that did.

Yammie’s can certainly be a learning curve to get into, you have to set up the user defined controls to really take advantage of them, but especially for talking heads, corporate etc. they are fantastic consoles, and their Rivage is the only thing looking at the world of theater in that price/performance range other than the Digico T-series consoles.

M32/X32 is still out there of course, though I constantly wonder when a true successor will hit for it, the lack of touchscreen is still a drawback on that console and it is getting very long in the tooth, though the amount of third party software available for it (Mixing Station, TheaterMix, etc.) means it is often a great choice IF paired with those other options these days. Like the SQ console, you can also track straight to a SD card on it for the record as the newer ones come with the upgraded USB expansion card that has a SD card slot for this purpose.

Yep I could go on for a bit obviously;)

I hear emacs has a great mixing console in it… all it needs is a decent text editor.

Seablade

^^ Former emacs org-mode junkie:)

#68

For my small setup, which is on a budget, I now use the RME DigiFace Dante. It seems to work very well on my MacMini M1. For my use case I need very low latency. Non-locking USB(-C) connector that is…

Just for live recording, Dante Virtual Soundcard can suffice. On OS X. I use it for Mixxx on Windows 10 via DVS and the latter regularly screws up the PCs audio system when the network cable is accidentally disconnected.

Linux Dante hardware options… we discussed those above already.

Now operating an Allen&Heath Zed10FX. Now this thing was really worth buying 10 years ago, it’s making money regularly. :rofl:

#69

Yep good point, that is other options as well:)

A&H’s small format analog offerings were always a step above others, particularly their mixwizard.

Yea cables getting disconnected is a definite issue and to be fair it can screw things up on most platforms, though technically DVS should still be running as a sound card even if disconnected from the network. But yeah that is why I like redundancy and ethercons obviously;)

   Seablade