3.2 and 3.3 produce considerably more xruns than 3.1

everytime i use 3.3, i find more bugs that make me keep rolling back to 3.1. 3.2 was the same way for me. i feel like both of them were beta releases of [hopefully] 3.4. maybe the monthly release cycle is a bit on the hasty side? --no-freesound won’t even compile! i understand the need to justify a subscription, but i for one would rather see versions that don’t get worse instead of new features with the preexisting ones breaking.

i hate being the asshole.

i guess what i’m saying is, versions that come out with NO new features would be fine by me. the basic flow of it is about as good as there is out there. while additional features may not be quite -bloat-, they sure as hell aren’t needed to win over converts or justify a subscription. $5 or $10 a month for mere bug fixes on a monthly basis is beyond sweet for the functionality offered (especially when it involves the possibility of sub microsecond latency, which i’m afraid is being lost; again, not everything, but should never have latencies increase! that is just way too cool to loose and speaks to the incredible skill and art involved)

and to have things that used to work two versions in a row is not good forward progress

again, bitching, while should be reading and actually helping constructively. (or at least folding laundry)

“mere bug” fixes …

audioengine branch: git diff master | egrep ‘^[-+]’ | wc -l … 12517 lines of code changed, added or removed
cairocanvas branch: 145291 lines of code changed, added or removed

that’s just two branches of work in progress whose eventual arrival will be greeted by a big yawn. why do that kind of work? because eventually they make things possible that are not so yawn-worthy.

if you think ardour’s flow is “about as good as there is out there”, then i think you haven’t very deeply explored the MIDI functionality of other DAWs. even with audio, some things we do very, very well (better than other DAWs) but there are important areas of ardour’s workflow that is geek-centric and when compared to DAWs that have had a lot of input from actual audio engineers, we could clearly do better for the less computer-centric mindset.

as for your performance issues, other people are not reporting them, and without much more detailed reports and analysis, i’d have to conclude that it is specific to your system and thus not of immediate general interest. that could be wrong, of course, but please don’t expect anyone to jump up because one user reports a performance change. computer systems (at least non-mac ones) are subject to way too much variability for us/me to pay much attention to isolated reports (even if those reports are absolutely correct, they are about one machine/system).

ardour3 is a bit heavier in resource use, particularly because:

  • it uses more gradients in graphics, which on systems with poor or even broken video drivers will cause CPU load
  • it does parallel DSP, which causes slightly higher CPU load in the simple cases in exchange for it being possible to generate much higher absolute CPU load in more complex ones.
  • it offers more metering options than earlier versions of ardour (at least at 3.3 and later) and metering is the single most expensive that ardour's own code performs
  • the builds i distribute are debug-enabled, and thus not optimized. this wouldn't account for variations between 3.x versions, however.

For me ardour3.3 works just fine so far. And I really don’t want to miss the video timeline. For me this feature is the entry point for ardour.

@paul: audioengine branch: git diff master | egrep ‘^[-+]’ | wc -l … 12517 lines of code changed, added or removed
I’m tracking this branch for some weeks. I’m just wondering. What is the benefit/plan of the audioengine abstraction?

eddrog: you will see the appearance (from developers other than me) of “native” drivers for ASIO and probably CoreAudio in the future. JACK doesn’t offer as many benefits to users on Windows or OS X as it does for Linux users, mostly because on those platforms, most audio software development takes the form of plugins, not applications.


And I really don’t want to miss the video timeline. For me this feature is the entry point for ardour. …

This probably belongs in a thread all of its own, but what do you need video timeline for? Just curious as to what users who need this functionality need to do with it. For me its something I know I will most likely never need (its still great functionality, but a bit of a distraction), but I assumed it would be more likely of use to professional media producers (perhaps thats you), but I would have thought they operate in a space dominated by e.g. Mac / Final Cut Pro X etc, and where the necessary budget required to make a high quality video in the first place would make any savings by doing post production in Ardour insignificant - and considering that a lot of the usual DAW suspects on other platforms also offer mixing to picture - often with (more) comprehensive video editing thrown in?
Just trying to get an idea of who uses it (and A3) and what for as I had always assumed that industry professional users were in the minority.


Although I have yet to actually use the video timeline feature (other than to test it for packaging) other than the obvious professional film/music video market I think it is an attractive option to Linux users because of the lack of adequate JACK Audio support in existing Linux NLE Video Editors. Blender can use JACK with scripting but that is hardly user-friendly, nor is Blender focused on traditional Video Editing although it is quite capable for those who want to dig deep. Cinelerra, Openshot and Kdenlive all lack JACK support (although the MLT framework utilized by Openshot/Kdenlive can sort of utilize JACK as a backend). The only other active Linux NLE ‘LiVES’ actually has JACK Audio support but it’s video editing GUI is not as fully developed as the other projects…

The Kdenlive project is the front runner and is actually now a very good general purpose NLE but the lack of User friendly JACK support hobbles it’s capabilities for Pro-grade Soundtrack processing and Audio enhancing/restoration hence Ardour’s attraction as an Audio-centric Video post production tool.


Since you asked;) Perfect example, see the Tube Trailer I posted about last week. Also called ‘Wires for Empathy’

But to be honest I am using Mixbus and Jadeo all the time in my work to do audio for video, which the VTL will be a good step up from this workflow in my ‘standard’ setups(Multi-machine setups are a different matter, haven’t tested VTL for this but I know Jadeo works great:). As long as it is stereo destined, which the majority of stuff I do is, this works out perfectly well and I can move at least as fast doing this on Linux as I can on other platforms with other tools (For the record I also teach at a university where along with Mixbus I do have access to the ‘usual’ suspects as well). For me as a professional, it has very little to do with saving money, in fact I probably give more money to Ardour than I would spend if I just bought PT on the upgrades etc. It has everything to do with supporting open source and using tools that allow me to work how I want to and get the job I need to done quickly, and with good quality. There are specific exceptions that is just not possible on Linux, some of which I have talked to you about before obviously, but you would be amazed what I can do these days. If you want to see other examples I would be more than happy to send you links to youtube separately for examples of works I have worked audio post on in the past few months, other than Tube, primarily it has been industrial/commercial type clips, short 5 minute or less pieces, but also some live recordings to match video etc.


Side note, yes most of the video I work with does come from Final Cut Pro X and Studio(7). Just because the video is done there doesn’t mean the audio needs to be, and honestly I need to take time to evaluate Lightworks for this as well.


@seablade: That’s interesting, obviously for you, as a professional user there is obviously a requirement to do video post production, and, as you say, it isn’t always about the financial implications, and Ardour provides a workflow which works for you. I guess what I’m wondering about more is how it works for non professional users (I assume that professionals, which I’ll define as, those using Ardour for paid work, are in the minority) and whereas I can see how a pro-quality DAW such as Ardour might also be a great asset for e.g. a solo hobbyist musician, I’m assuming video is less relevant. Just trying to get an idea of how it works for different groups of users.

@seablade: Please provide the links I’m very interested in your work.

I’ll post later my opinion now I have to pack for vacations !!!

i was having problems with slow video refresh when loading guis and switching between the mixer and track windows, turns out its to do with nvidias poorly written drivers causing slow 2d drawing, there are a couple of fixes for that

nvidia-settings -a AccelerateTrapezoids=0
nvidia-settings -a InitialPixmapPlacement=0

these may or may not improve things depending on your card and what drivers you use. only one of those commands made a noticeble improvement cnat remember witch one, these settings are not saved so need to be redone on boot or put in a script that gets loaded after you login.

either that or stick with the open source drivers. the open source drivers dont give me poor 2d performance.

@linuxdsp: I’m not a pro. I dont primarily earn my money with video/audio. For me I have two use cases:

  1. A friend of mine is a blender guru but has no experience in audio. So for this the video timeline is just perfect. I get the rendered file - he gets the soundtrack.

  2. I started very early with the separated workflow. Cutting video in a video editor - audio/soundtrack is done with an audio centric program. The problem is that a lot of good video programs are video centric and lack for some audio functions. Not all kinds of films can be done with the separated workflow so easily. But this is another topic. If it is possible I prefer to do the soundtrack in the post - I can completely concentrate to audio and use the full power of an audio application.

otherone23 wrote:

i'd be willing to bet the videotimeline stuff is screwing me up.

I’ll take any bet against that! You name it. If you don’t use it it won’t affect any aspect of ardour3. The same holds true for the meterbridge.